Block/Block Attribute Changing Layers Problem...

Using AutoCAD 2002, I work for my local municipality, and we have a master drawing for our services, indicating hydrant, manhole, watervalve, and main
line locations. We've basically created each object (ie manhole, valve, and hydrant) as a block with attributes, including the type, location and direction of flow. Currently, they have a null value for data, as we're in the process of setting up a system to assign numbers and such.
Now, here's the problem: I can't change the block's layer, no matter how hard I try. For example, if I create a hydrant block, and put it on the layer "hydrant", I can't transfer it to our main water line layer called "water main". I've tried exploding the block, changing the layers for the hydrant block, and then blocking it again on the "water main" layer, and then matching properties for the rest of them, but something "remains" on the "hydrant" layer. I've checked the block attributes under modify>object, and my three attributes show as being under the "water main" layer. If I freeze the "water main" layer, the hydrants disappear (even if the "hydrant" layer is on). This is expected. However, if I turn off the "hydrant" layer, and leave the "water main" layer on, the hydrants still disappear.
In a nutshell, for reasons I wont get into, I had to put the hydrants on one layer as a block, the valves on another as a block, and the main lines on a third layer (no block). Now, what I want to do is put all three sets of objects on the same layer, and delete the other two layers.
Sorry is sounds so complicated, but it's an annoying problem...
Thanks in advance...
Dave
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HiHo; Create the block on layer 0. Then insert on whatever layer is appropriate.

main
and
in
modify>object,
"hydrant"
one
a
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<Shakes head> Government.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.com
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Sorry we all can't be as skilled as you...
Dave

valve,
we're
the
and
If
on
of
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The fact that you are collecting a salary to work with this app and do not know the most elementary stuff could only happen in the government. That is the gist of my comment. Even the length of your post betrays your situation. I wouldn't be surprised if you are posting from work.
Everybody has to start somewhere, but LAYER 0 is Day Two in any AutoCAD course. If it's news to you, why not take one? Your employer will probably pick up the tab, or would that make too much sense for the public sector?

and
and
matter
for
"remains"
"hydrant"
hydrants
lines
sets
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Unfortunatly I must agree. Rule of thumb is to always create a block on layer 0. Maybe he forgot about it? No need to pass insults though.
Chris

a
on
layer,
layer.
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I disagree.
I tend to put elements in block onto the layer they're supposed to be on. Doors are always supposed to be on a door layer, so create the block on your door layer.
Of course, I *do know* about putting them on layer 0, and can do that when needed as well....
DJE

have
watervalve,
manhole,
location
as
it
layer
layers
the
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Everyone uses CAD differently. I like to create my blocks on layer 0 and set the color and linetype to byblock. That way I only have to have 1 block for new work, existing work and demolition (different layers, colors and linetype)
On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:18:02 +0100, "Daniel J. Ellis"

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Like Chris said, people use CAD in different ways. Your approach would work in a relatively simple and rigid layering system, but you could easily run into the problem that the OP mentioned: Things go on or off when they shouldn't because they mistakenly placed on the wrong layer, which no one noticed because it looked right at the time because the elements within the block are on the right layer. For this reason, and many others (like that fact that my layering is complex and I have at least one door layer per floor level in the same drawing) I'm with Chris, and rarely make blocks with elements on layers other than 0.

data,
main
three
problem...
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It wasn't meant as an insult, and looking back I don't think one was delivered. It may have been perceived as such, for that I'm sorry. The jab was at the state of the bureaucracy in modern democratic states. Imagine this guy is setting up drawings (databases) and doesn't know about LAYER 0. Possibly nobody around him seems to know either because he's resorting to the NG on this question. I ask the guy next to me first.
Now imagine the other things he does not know. Now imagine how many tax dollars are going to be siphoned off of productive competitive people to fix the mess in the future. That job will probably be given to another guy who doesn't know what he's doing, he will be managed by another guy who doesn't know what he's doing, and so on. There's just no accountability in the civil service. Not anything like the stuff out here in the real world.
That was funny about forgetting about it though.

have
watervalve,
manhole,
location
as
it
layer
layers
the
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Really? The course I took was a year. In that time, the only reference to layer zero ever made was as just another layer. Blocks were mentioned somewhat in passing, attributes not at all. Xrefs were treated similarly. Don't be to quick to judge. His instructor probably learned from mine.

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I'm very disappointed to hear that, but I don't know why I'm surprised. The blind continue to lead the blind. I have taught several people to use the app over the years, and they all got LAYER 0 20 minutes after they got BLOCK. Everyone of them found it a bit confusing, but they did get it.
I learned from the R11 manual, and though a bit confusing to go through by yourself, the LAYER 0 was covered adequately.
wrote in message news:T88Mc.13847

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Thanks for the reply....
Dave
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Put the items on layer 0 and make the color and linetype BYBLOCK.
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Thanks for the reply...
Dave
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what you changed was the block's insertion point layer. a block exists as a collection of entities in one or MORE layers as a subset drawing in the database. when you insert it, you are giving a location for this sub- drawing to exist, and also a layer to put it in.
the guys are right, draw entities in layer 0, a very special place, and insert in a different layer and the block will take on the attributes of the layer you insert into. you will be able to control the visibility of blocks by freezing & thawing the insertion layer(s).
but there is so much more.
I have very many blocks assembled from entities in multiple layers. a block composed of entities from layers A, B, C & D and iserted in layer X will partly dissappear if I freeze only layer B, but entirely vanish if I freeze layer X. with A, B, C & D frozen, layer X can be thawed and still I don't see the individual elements, and the effect is the same as if X were frozen.
create a block with a fire hydrant drawn in FH, a water valve drawn in WV and a CHIMPANZEE drawn in layer DEMOCRAT...... create a block definition from these entities and delete it.
insert this block in layer BLOCKS, and you will see the whole mess. turn off 2 of the other 3 layers and VUNDABA! you are left with the one you did not turn off.
or, if a particular block will be used on drawings of widely differing scales, sometimes I put the details in a different layer so I can turn off when plotted on a drawing at a much reduced scale.
now, I have about 40 pages of Fire Alarm drawings to generate, and I look forward to skillfully manipulating the rotation of several thousand attributes. It's gonna be a good day.
thanks again guys.
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