Dead Career - Drafting

CW wrote:


JERK!
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Doesn't that get back to this? I can teach you CAD in 40 hours, I can teach you architecture in 40 years.

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it depends on the person.. some people will never get it. others will pick it up just by watching someone else do it once.
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I don't know about "once" but some get it faster than others, while many never do.
--


MichaelB
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I agree with zion9 Drafting is dead. I am a Kentuckian as well with 2-year associate degree and I can't even buy a drafting position. Th sad part about it is that I DO enjoy drafting. :cry: :cry
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move away from Kentucky. Indiana is thriving with jobs

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Yeah. Sounds like Kentucky is dead. It's tough when the place you love won't support you doing the things you love. Something's gotta give. Maybe you should think more like an entrepreneur?

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I have a Masters in Fine Arts. I picked up drafting working for various architectural firms, first as a typist, then doing, computer graphics and 3D modeling. I got laid off in 1999 and went to work as a consultant. I've never pretended to have any knowledge of architecture. Give me your sketches or red lines and I'll get 'em back to you, fast, accurate, in accordance with your standards, and at a reasonable price. I've got to think that architects and engineers (I've worked for both) are more particular here in Massachusetts than they are in Kentucky and nobody's ever complained about my drafting skills. I'm back at a corporate job again doing graphics and 3D and I'm having a great time learning Sketchup and Piranesi on the company dime. Aren't there any temp agencies in Kentucky? There's plenty of call for CAD monkeys around here.
Marc

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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:10:17 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Dancer) wrote:

Start doing side line jobs from the Internet. There are web sites around that list employers seeking people to do CAD work (usually converting old hand tracings to CAD). The pay isn't bad but the taxes suck just remember to stick 20 percent of EVERYTHING you make in a savings account for taxes.
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zion9 wrote:

I am not surprised by the insulting replies of these posts why the CAD Drafter will always be in a catch 22 situation. Expected to "design" with no engineering education, or as some have mentioned, not even a Drafting degree!
I wouldn't be surprised if closed-minded engineers who always enjoy blaming the CAD operator for their lack of design skills made these posts. Every engineer needs a scapegoat. Why not the Drafter?
Drafters draw blueprints and engineers design them.
So you either train the Drafter or you end up having a huge company turnover in the CAD Department. Duhh! I thought companies were smarter than that.
I am not trying to be pejorative or overly snarky. I just feel that I have been in a catch 22 situation at every architectural or engineering firm. They always expect more than what my degree prepared me for.
You don't have to worry. I have been out of my field for two years. I have applied at over 20 engineering firms and get the same, "Can you design BS."
No one will train and no one gives a flying monkey's arse. They expect you to walk-in and do the engineers job for him/her.
I am sorry. I just feel that what engineering/architectural firms expect from the Drafter is unfair. I also think the schools are responsible for not preparing the students for the demands of the engineering firms.
I asked one Architect, "What type of education would it take to have me prepared enough to work for your company?"
He said, "I dont know, but all I know is that we need a designer and we don't have time to train you."
Wow! If he didn't know then who does?
There is either the two-year Associate Degree Drafting courses or engineering courses.
What the Hell am I supposed to do to be good enough? I mean, I already went to school for two-years and a certified AutoCAD Drafting course?!! I am sorry but I think engineering firms are too damn picky and expect a rocket scientist for minimal pay.
My definition of Drafter/CAD Operator: Underpaid Engineer
My point: You cant squeeze blood from a turnip.
As one poster mentioned, what do I have to accomplish?
I dont know, but I was filling out an application for McDonalds while putting on the application that I have a two-year Associate Degree.
And for the smart asses, I do take pride in my work and did my best, but it wasn't good enough. They wanted engineers/architects.
The engineers and architects love to whine and moan about not finding good CAD Opereators. Have they ever considered that their standards may be too high and that the fact that they wont train is the issue.
Hell, I forgot, everyone needs a scapegoat.
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What he's telling you is that the degree doesn't matter. The intelligence does. One of the best designers I've worked for has a technologist's diploma from a technical school. He's making a whack of money. No degree is no meal ticket.
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Thought confirmed. This is a rant from someone who couldn't cut it.

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Dunno what to tell ya man... I started out on a drafting board, with a 2 year degree in Mechanical Technology. I progressed from the board to the computer, and am now titled as "senior designer". I design parts, from engineers direction, they tell me the requirements, I model the part(s).
We still have cad detailers, those that haven't developed the modeling skills yet, or just don't have the designer knack. They take my models, and detail them.
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LoneGunman wrote:

Thank you for your polite reply. :-)
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A very interesting thread IMHO (As a draughtsman who became an Engineer by part time study ONC HND (Now called BTEC) and a 4 year Part time day and evening Honours Degree in Civil Engineering (with Advanced Structures as my option) whilst working.
Until the site agent, chippy, brick layer, plumber, roofer and others carry around something to view 3D models on they are for Architects and clients on schemes that warrent the investment in time and money to produce them.
Mind you seeing the crap that 60% of Architects create in 2D do we really want them to produce this in yet another dimension ?
Before I get flamed some of best friend are Architects and so are some of my worst nightmears, and IMHO the Best architects are those that has worked their way up from technicians that draw construction details.
They don't train draughtsmen like they use too.
A good draughtsman, and those listed above create the 3D model in their heads from the 2D details (if detailed correctly in the first place)
Finding good draughtsmen is hard as an employer!
Many employers don't value these people enough! or pay them enough.
In the UK they don't teach TD (Technical Drawing) anymore in schools and drawing is not covered at ONC HND level like it use to be. University Grads may have picked up some CAD experiance from their studies, however this is not covered as a given subject.
Nearest thing in the uk to what you guys are talking about is a city & guilds course in AutoCAD, I have seen the wonderful 3D windmill the guy has drawn, but he can't pass my 3Minute test and has no understanding on how bricks are bonded, and about general construction, thus he goes to show another prospective employer his wonderful 3D windmill.
Rant over time to get ready for work
cadalot
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Ditto (As a draughtsman who became an

One of my sons is very competent in 3D AutoCAD, and was recently asked to work on an architectural drawing, to produce renderings and walk-throughs etc. Oops - the roof turned out to be on the same level as the ground floor ... he ended up starting again from scratch using the engineering drawings. In his view, the best device for walk-thoughs is the scene developer for Quake. Ideal. No more walking through walls. One drawback is you must have at least one monster (real estate agent) and one weapon (clipboard). You can shoot the real estate agent with the clipboard - but you don't tell the client that ...

My son produces things like a 3D nautilus shell, 3D fish. Eventually he ran into someone who was racking their brains trying to find someone who could draw a self-extracting mining drill - large double helix device. Things began to look up after that. He had breezed through the CAD course in the Australian TAFE system, but was a bit daunted at the prospect of doing a 4 year evening course in basic construction, until an employer suggested not to bother, just get out there and do the site surveys, measure-up, and they would find the errors ...
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wrote:

What is that 3Minute test? :)
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Get the guy to produce the drawing and see how he does it and how accurate he is. If he takes more than 3minutes forget it.
I had one guy who after 20-25 minutes I just said sorry and showed him the door.
http://www.cadalot.co.uk/how_to_draw/3mintest.pdf
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:21:12 +0100, The-trooper

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All you need is LINE and MOVE to pull that off....and BRAIN set to (1).
It reminds me of a job I had as a teenager delivering mail. They interviewed me, and then gave me ten envelopes to place in alphabetical order according to street name......in two minutes.... Go!
After 30 seconds they asked me if I wanted to double check my work....after 45 we were staring at each other somewhat uncomfortably for the rest of the time allotted. I should have known I couldn't last at that job right there but I was a kid.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
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Mike
A little more than LINE and MOVE
There are two concentric squares that appear twice in the arrangement; I would look for those to be drawn using rectangle and offset maybe, and then copied and moved into the correct location (How did they go about that process?). Could they see where they could save time in the drawing process? I would watch to see how they would draw the shapes, x,y or polar or tracking, did they draw a line from the centre figure to the location point of each element around the centre element then delete or did they offset from a point. How did they handle OSNAP or did they snap at all, did they go beyond the basic figures as asked for, (could they read and understand an basic instruction) and add the dimensions? Did the final drawing match the information provided i.e. was it dimensionally accurate or did it just look right.
As you say a very simple test, but I wanted to see that these guys could produce accurate work and understood coordinates and snaps etc. This little test really helped me weed out those people that were time wasters and wanting to learn CAD on the job.
I had other short tests that were based upon my training material that then showed me they had an understanding of layers and dimensioning.
Before my company let me start vetting the Agency Draughtsmen that they were employing we had some wonderful crap produced by these people. I can send you a drawing I use to this day to show what good draughtsmanship isn't
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:10:07 -0500, "Michael Bulatovich"

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