I have been asked to do some drawings by a structural engineer in
California. I will be using ArchiCAD, and tranferring through FTP and
getting them marked-up (redlined) on the web using a particular feauture
that ArchiCAD has.
What I would like to know is what the typical hourly rate for CAD drawings
is in the US?
Cheers
ss.
Location (ie. competition with local rates), type of drawings and
complexity (residential, commercial, etc.), and other factors. The US
is rather large and does not even remotely approximate a "market". It
is comprised of many markets and they all have their peculiarities.
FWIW, I've seen CAD drawings offered for anywhere from ten cents per
square foot to nearly ten times that. In other words, why don't you
contact some local drafters in the engineer's neck of the woods and ask
them what they charge. Then, remembering that the engineer is
outsourcing to save money, and how far outsourcing can go nowadays,
ignore what you learned in the first investigation and just come up
with what you think is a fair price.
As an alternative, ask the engineer expects to pay, and then act
surprised and ask for triple that. Compromise at double and you'll
probably both be relatively happy.
R
Do you need a chance to show what you can do or not?
Are you a known "thing"?
$35 per hour is a starting basis. What constitutes an hour is another
thing. Do you have special skills and timesaving programs or is this
routine - copy the pencil trash - is this a finished product or are
several reviews by other required?
TT
Thanks for your answers. I am good with ArchiCAD, and this guy seems to
have contacted me through the Graphisoft forums where he could have deduced
that I am quite advanced with it. My problem is that I am a bit of a
perfectionist and take longer than I should to do drawings. From the
examples of the type of drawings that he wants me to do, some of of which
are complex, I think that in time I can reduce the amount of time required
by building my own library parts.
ss.
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:13:37 +0100, "Synapse Syndrome"
To work well with a str eng you will certainly need to have a good
understanding of structures and designs. Are you good in physics,
trig, vector math and perhaps even a basic structures class. Not that
you will be doing any of this but you will be able to follow and
correctly detail what is going on - as somebody must do on every
single job. Perhaps the guy only wants help on the cad side with
automation.
$ and thoughts of $ is for peasants. If you are really good people
will pay ANYTHING for competence. If you can't be trusted to do
work by the hour then certainly only a fool would want you for
piece-work or by the job. An employer wants SOLUTIONS and problems
to go away. You absolutely never know but this could be the start of
a long happy relationship.
Good luck,
TT
Interesting permutations. Outsourcing from California - where presumably
the labor rates are high.....
You know, I get different feelings based on where it is going to.
Paying the Social Security tax of the self employed is always a good
idea. Try to not forget it.
But assuming everything is on the up & up, your labor rate should be as
least as much as you could get where you are, and up to whatever he is
willing to pay. The things that make prices in California high the
Californians have done to themselves over the years. Aligator tears.
But the structural engineer is either a cheapskate, or stupid. Unless
you know what it is you are drawing you will either be slow or prone to
the kind of mistakes that are costly - his liability. That's why we have
that pesky "under DIRECT supervision" requirement for drafting for an
engineer in Missouri.
Doesn't seem like HE is the kind I would work for, but it's your choice.
Hard up?
Heh, well I was hoping to sort not mention this extra work to the taxman,
but that's about as far I will go with fraud.
I live in the UK, and if anything it looks like we get paid as much or
possibly more here. However, I am in need of some extra money to get some
money together for a mortgage.
He says he likes the idea of the time difference with me in the UK, allowing
him to red-line drawing that I out on a java webpage at the end of my day.
I personally think that I am one of the best people that he could find for
working in ArchiCAD in this way as I know how to do it, and have never met
anybody else that has. I do think that he is looking to do this on the
cheap, but in my circumstances I want to go as low as I can to make this
deal.
You seem like an honest soul. I am rather pissed at our govenment today.
(I just edited out serveral line of exactly why.)
That being said, I charge $50 / hr. I am cheap, but I don't get many
jobs from situations similar to yours. I offered to draw simple surveys
for an engineer out of state once, but he never took me up on it. I have
been a surveyor, and house on lot surveys are cake. Could have been a
sweet deal.
May have been that pesky direct supervision.
Good luck to you.
I've worked remotely, mostly with successful results. I had one firm in
Israel that paid me all but the last payment, so be wary of that. Maybe
consider escrow if you're unsure, but trust is a two way thing.
This guy is probably contacting you to work remotely because he can't find
anyone to do it locally. Don't forget that. Have you tried asking HIM what
it's worth to him? People tend to forget that a negotiation is not a fight,
it's a discussion between two parties with the aim of acheiving a common
goal. A win-win situation for both. He (hopefully) doesn't know how much you
need the money, so don't let him.
My advice would be to quote what you 'usually' get for this kind of work in
the UK. Make it whatever you ~want~ within reason. Then ask him how that
suits him - at least you'll find out just what he is prepared to pay.Tell
him you are unsure of the going rate in his area, not only will it build
trust through honesty, but it will give you room to negotiate. Let him know
that you are open to negotiation, but make it very clear that you do look
forward to developing an ongoing and mutually rewarding relationship with
him. Basic negotiation - always keep the goal in sight and work towards it.
Be sure to sell yourself the whole time. People mistakingly think that they
can just quote a number and expect someone to react to it positively. It's
quite the opposite - in fact if anything people should belabour the point on
why they are worth what they say. You've got to prove that you are good at
this work, quote a (negotiable) figure, then explain why that is a good
price and how it will benefit him. Give references even and offer a money
back guarantee - sounds crazy, but it has been proven that only about 1% of
people will take you up on it, even if they are unhappy, and it doesn't mean
that you have to refund ~all~ the money [have you noticed how many money
back guarantees are out there? Don't even start me on rebates!]. Tell him
you'll even some knock off your 'usual' price, as a sign of good faith, even
if you arrive at your normal price. You have to make him think he's getting
a deal, and then you have to back it up.
My opinion is that per-diem is for suckers. It's a very poor way of
charging, whether by time or by amount. What you need to charge for is a
service. A complete package - a solution. Sure every job will change in size
and complexity, but you should charge accordingly on a job-by-job basis,
also giving you room to become more profitable. Don't get greedy, but if you
have or will create an efficient system to produce his drawings, you should
be rewarded for it. That is what business is all about.
I have my own very successful ArchiCAD (on-site) consulting business and
have used these principles and others to further my success. I have
benefitted from such books as 'The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing' by Al
Ries & Jack Trout, How to Outnegotiate Anyone (Even a Car Dealer!) by Leo
Reilly, and The Apostle's Creed, by Ian Brooks. I can highly recommend all
of them ( and even some basic consulting books whose titles I can;t recall
right now), and if I were you I'd get the negotiation one quick smart. It's
good for any kind of negotiation in life. Very powerful stuff that will pay
for itself over and over with each new job.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Link.
I've worked remotely, mostly with successful results. I had one firm in
Israel that paid me all but the last payment, so be wary of that. Maybe
consider escrow if you're unsure, but trust is a two way thing.
This guy is probably contacting you to work remotely because he can't find
anyone to do it locally. Don't forget that. Have you tried asking HIM what
it's worth to him? People tend to forget that a negotiation is not a fight,
it's a discussion between two parties with the aim of acheiving a common
goal. A win-win situation for both. He (hopefully) doesn't know how much you
need the money, so don't let him.
My advice would be to quote what you 'usually' get for this kind of work in
the UK. Make it whatever you ~want~ within reason. Then ask him how that
suits him - at least you'll find out just what he is prepared to pay.Tell
him you are unsure of the going rate in his area, not only will it build
trust through honesty, but it will give you room to negotiate. Let him know
that you are open to negotiation, but make it very clear that you do look
forward to developing an ongoing and mutually rewarding relationship with
him. Basic negotiation - always keep the goal in sight and work towards it.
Be sure to sell yourself the whole time. People mistakingly think that they
can just quote a number and expect someone to react to it positively. It's
quite the opposite - in fact if anything people should belabour the point on
why they are worth what they say. You've got to prove that you are good at
this work, quote a (negotiable) figure, then explain why that is a good
price and how it will benefit him. Give references even and offer a money
back guarantee - sounds crazy, but it has been proven that only about 1% of
people will take you up on it, even if they are unhappy, and it doesn't mean
that you have to refund ~all~ the money [have you noticed how many money
back guarantees are out there? Don't even start me on rebates!]. Tell him
you'll even some knock off your 'usual' price, as a sign of good faith, even
if you arrive at your normal price. You have to make him think he's getting
a deal, and then you have to back it up.
My opinion is that per-diem is for suckers. It's a very poor way of
charging, whether by time or by amount. What you need to charge for is a
service. A complete package - a solution. Sure every job will change in size
and complexity, but you should charge accordingly on a job-by-job basis,
also giving you room to become more profitable. Don't get greedy, but if you
have or will create an efficient system to produce his drawings, you should
be rewarded for it. That is what business is all about.
I have my own very successful ArchiCAD (on-site) consulting business and
have used these principles and others to further my success. I have
benefitted from such books as 'The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing' by Al
Ries & Jack Trout, How to Outnegotiate Anyone (Even a Car Dealer!) by Leo
Reilly, and The Apostle's Creed, by Ian Brooks. I can highly recommend all
of them ( and even some basic consulting books whose titles I can;t recall
right now), and if I were you I'd get the negotiation one quick smart. It's
good for any kind of negotiation in life. Very powerful stuff that will pay
for itself over and over with each new job.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Link.
hi Link, a belated thanks for your reply, which has been very helpful.
I was at the recent ArchiCAD university in the UK and somebody mentioned you
as probably the world's most competent ArchiCAD user.
ss.
In my opinion, it is irrelevant how much it costs for him to get it done
locally. If he can get it done for $1 an hour where he is, or by going
to India for the work, are you going to drop your price to the point
where you can't feed yourself or your family, and lock up your time so
you can't get other work?
Similarly, if you ask a rate that is comparable to the rate he pays
locally, but is higher than what you really expect just to get a
windfall, he will probably find someone local to do the work, or will
never use you again once he is out of his current situation.
Ask a price that you can live with and either stand firm, or inflate
before quoting to allow for negotiation.
And if you are looking to ripoff the taxman, this is an easy time to do
it, since what are the odds that this transaction will be reported to
your local government? You are also not within reach of his local
government. However, if you aren't looking to cheat on taxes, you need
to verify what your tax situation and paperwork will become as a result
of this transaction.
Synapse Syndrome wrote:
The world's most competent user, hey? Well I wonder who said that? I will
have to send them a check;-) I always cringe when people refer to me like
that! I would much rather say that I was up in the top 5%, as there are many
excellent users, I just like to teach people how to be the best they can be.
I was actually on a job in the UK during ACUE, but was unable to attend. It
was really unfortunate, as I think it is a great event.
I am glad you got some value out of my advice. It is the basis of how I run
my business, and has worked very well for me. Of course you have to use
common sense with it. Like if the local rate is only one bloody dollar,
you'll need to take a different tack! Jeesh! And if you ask for too much,
you obviously won't get the deal, but it is a successful system. And you can
eventually weed out the people you don't want to work for.
I don't think you'll have too many problems;-)
Cheers,
Link.
I think that is not a good thing to do at all as some of the drawing are far
more complex than others, and with the scalabilty of CAD drawings the size
of the printed output seems irrelevant. Cheers.
ss.
On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 18:07:02 +0100, "Synapse Syndrome"
I do an increasing scale rate, if its something I've never worked with
or drawn before I charge 35.00 per hour (requires more over the
shoulder checks) once used expectations are understood and the logic
are understood my fee increases to 50 per hour and 100 per hour plus
travel expenses (set cap) if I do site work / administration.
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