hello!

Nice. I'm jealous. The part you never got around to mentioning is a 1500 dollar price tag. 2 grand for the 40someodd inch model but still single
phase 220. All things considered it's not a bad price tag and well worth doing if you thinking like a production professional. As a hobby knife maker that would be a bit much. Still I can dream...
GA

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life.
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Greyangel wrote:

I dunno... mine paid for itself in the first batch. The beauty of it is in the controller, +1/-3 degrees from the setpoint, first time every time. You can make magic with control that fine. With stock of known composition, I can guarantee Rockwell to +/- half a point, and the tester backs it up. Here in Okiehohum, you can make $12,000 a year off a hobby tax free, you might want to check into how much in your state. There's big bux in good damascus, even here in the armpit of the universe. What's really funny is that cable goes over really well with the oilies when you tell them what the blade is made from. I guess it's because they work with this stuff every day and they KNOW how much load it will take.
Charly
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1500
worth
in the

can make

guarantee
Okiehohum,
into
the
really well

it's
will
I guess if a person were getting a couple hundred or more for a blade it would be silly not to get something like that. It would be quality assurance. My stuff has a ways to go before I'll be comfortable selling it to strangers. You can give a lifetime guarantee to folks you know and back it up with confidence. How is the scale when you use it? Doing any controlled atmosphere? Whats the liner (oven) like? Speaking of damascus, do you use the oven for that? I'm dying to try doing some Mokume - copper and silver (nickle?) something cheap but impressive looking. Got a place not too far from here I need to go visit (as soon as I can get a weekday off) that sells specialty metals.
GA
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Greyangel wrote:

That makes me wonder...
Is there a list of specialty metals dealers, like the list of coal dealers that circulates here occasionally? I'm in the San Diego area and have been spectacularly unsuccessful looking for them.
- ken
P.S. Welcome back to Atar from me, too. I saw a dagger you made about 18 or 20 years ago, and thought: Holy *&%^(*! This guy knows how to do it! Pretty good writer, too.
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Got a place up here in northern (well northern central) California called All Metals that says they can get me whatever I want. They are supposed to do a lot of business in tools steels and stainless. I talked to a rep on the phone for a few minutes recently and he told me that they don't "carry" the sheet non-ferric metals anymore but can get it if I want to place an order. Told me to come in and they would give me a catalog. They have a web site but it's pretty uninformative. I don't think they're very up on the internet business thing. I'll be on vacation next week and I'm planning a trip up there then. Another guy I work with said there's a place in Sacramento that buys up odds and ends of "art metals" and resell it to walk in business. Supposed to be sheets with holes punched out of it - that kind of thing. Planning on doing a run down there too one of these days.
GA
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Greyangel wrote:

The liner is the standard spongy firebrick that's in everything Paragon makes. The only way to do 'controlled atmosphere' is to wrap the work in inconel foil and throw in a few woodchips into the package to flash off the oxy as the temp comes up, the box doesn't seal airtight. With 5160, the scale isn't bad, and it sheds in the oil tank. What doesn't shed comes right off with a wire wheel. As for damascus, I use it for the HT, it really doesn't get hot enough to weld off of. For welding I've got a dragon in a box.
Concerning guarantees; if I wouldn't bet MY life on it, it doesn't get out the door. That probably comes from my aviation mechanic background, I was expected to 'ride along' on check flights after repairs. A real motivator, that. The only structural failure that the shop has had came from a bowie designed and fabbed by someone else, and I warned him that the shoulder area was weak, but he wouldn't listen. I've never had one of mine come back.
Charly
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makes.
foil
temp
and it

wheel. As

weld off

the
expected
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I get this image of sailing through the air like the Silver Surfer riding a knife blade ;-)

fabbed
You make the tool suit the purpose. Not all knives *should* be made to withstand anything you can throw at them. You have to sacrifice something to get a really good cutting tool and likewise if you need a "tough" blade. Then there is the "art" vs. utility thing. I personally want to eventually be able to make knives that sombody would hang on the wall or keep for light use just 'cause it looks really nice. Who's gonna spend big dollars for a fancy knife and then butcher elk with it or throw it at trees? For the occasional individual who might seriously have to defend themselves with their knife you don't need "unbreakable", only sturdy and sharp. For a good survival knife I'd want something I can throw at trees, do crude butchering or stand on it if need be - but I'd expect to spend some time sharpening it up later.
GA
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:38:33 -0800, "Greyangel"

LOL Some people will do that very freaking thing! Try a large damascus knife made from O1,1095 and mild steel fitted with silver finger guard and spacer separating coco bolo and purple heart handle.File work all the way down the back side of the blade." Hatcheted" open an elk and then spent the rest of his hunting trip "whittling" up firewood with it. He brought it back to me to "clean" up the blade. I had to destroy the handle to remove it, regrind and the reheat treat the blade. I learned a valuable lesson from that - Always ask what you intend to use the knife for. Then explain the "sacrifices" that have to be met in order to achieve the best blade for that purpose. ie: skinning vs wood chopping. If I know a person will be cracking open an elk and tossing at trees thats fine, I'll make a healthy blade with a flat grind maybe, but if they want something to trim nose hairs, well you know, maybe a tiny hollow ground blade (right tool for the job sort of thing)

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Greyangel wrote:

Spyderco had an add once that showed one of their folders sawing through a steel cable. I took that to heart, my broadswords can do the 'hanging rope' test with half-inch cable. It helps to hang an exhaust manifold on the cable to straighten it out, but it's not like hanging an anvil and putting the cable under noticable tension. (Atar thought they were too thick, but I got the dimensions from the British Museum; .321" thick at the spine. .290" stock was as close as I could get in bulk) I make weapons, I don't make wall hangers. Yeah, if you try to cleave the nose off an anvil, you'll ding the blade, but it won't fail and leave you with just a handle. I sent one with a buddy down to Ft Swill, and he took it out on the tank range and had an 8" Self Propelled drive over it repeatedly. It scratched up the furniture, didn't even break the oxide coat on the blade.
Charly
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steel
test with

straighten
Don't s'pose you got a video of that posted somewhere? Not calling you a liar, just have a hard time wrapping my brain around that one.
GA

noticable
the
could
to
leave
took it

repeatedly. It

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<Chuckle> Don't know about Charly's blades, but I've personally seen a piece of 1/2 square mild steel sharpened like a pencil with one of Tinker's swords, made of 5160. No damage to the blade. In fact, it seemed barely dulled.
I had a hard time wrapping my mind around that one, too, and I was watching!:)
I don't think the wire rope cutting can be ruled out for properly hardened and tempered blades of the right material.
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:10:22 GMT, Charly the Bastard

Its pretty easy to make a blade chop a nail in half or shave mild steel, I've even whacked into my vice a few times(accidentally) with no damage to a blade. But I have to admit, 1/2" steel cable, thats one I would have to see to believe.
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Cool. :) Which steel and at what draw? Or is the edge different from rest?
Actually I'm just the opposite, make cutting tools and not weapons, but that doesn't mean I'm not still interested in how. :)
Alvin in AZ
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snipped-for-privacy@XX.com wrote:

That's an easy one, 5160 spheroidized, oil quenched from 1600 F, draw to 465 F for two hours and cool in still ambient. Rc 54-55. A Nicholson will readily dress the edge, a sharp one that is. Probably what's more important is the bevel angle, which is 22 degrees included and the four pounds mass. I'm not small, but I'm not Hulk Hogan either. You gotta completely follow through, no half measures here, use your whole body, but yeah you can chop through half inch 7X19 extra flexible without dinging up the blade. I've done this five times. it threw sparks once. I really don't feel like it today though, maybe in the Spring...
Charly
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I helped to make these blades, they will do this. one of rhe final tests before leaving the shop is to thrust into a 50 gallon drum and take one cut at it and there is a light polish to the blade at the impact point at the most.
"a football game is poor use of a site that has already been marked out so conveniently as a pistol range" " Hunter"
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On 17 Dec 2004 18:11:07 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comtrash (Fynreswolf) wrote:

I can hammer a soft nail easily through a 55 gallon drum, thats thin soft steel. There should be no doubt about thrusting a sharp blade into one. But 1/2" steel cable is another story. I have a 8000lb winch in the back of my truck with no thicker than 5/16" cable and while it may be concievable that a serrated blade could saw through each individual strand before becoming totally worthless, it is hard for me to imagine, even if the cable was stressed to 1000 lbs, chopping clean through it by hand using a sword. Tell ya what, if I could do that I would be doing demos everywhere and probably have to hire someone to manage all that extra money :)
Forger
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Do it! :) Lynn Thomson (sp?) (cold steel) made a fortune like you say. :)
There was a "knife edge holding test" by some knifemakers guild and a guy wrote it up after he realized he just cut the free hanging rope with a blade that never got to austenitizing temperature so was dead soft! :) Edge geometry and swinging technique was settled on as what the 1"+ hanging rope test was really about. :) It was about time too. :/
Do like they say... I'm betting it'll work. Edge geometry, skill, and a decently hard and strong steel blade, I bet'll do it just like they say. :)
Other than that, I don't know shit about it tho. :/
Prove me right or wrong I don't care which. :)
Alvin in AZ
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On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:10:42 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@XX.com wrote:

Ok.. the hanging rope test for Journeyman Bladesmith is: "- A sufficient length of one (1) inch minimum diameter sisal or manila rope"
Its taped off as to where to cut it. About every foot if I remember right. Its not steel cable and it's great stuff to compare blades (number of cuts)
That is not what I'm talking about.
This is what Charly said:

I read that as he does the hanging rope test with not sisal, not manila, but "steel" cable. Inotherwords Spyderco sawed through steel cable, he can do the hanging rope test with steel cable.
Now if you can show me that Lynn Thompson of Cold Steel cut through free hanging 1 inch steel cable with a soft blade then all I can say is HOLY SHIT I need to work on my swing! (and I'm gonna stand WAY back next time I winch something heavy into my truck)
Forger
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Forger wrote:

It was half inch 7x19 that we scrounged from the hiway dept. I think they used it for guardrail between the wood posts. It may not be the 'aircraft' cable that everyone thinks of, it didn't weld for beans. But still, even dead soft it's nothing to sneeze at. We've chopped up cars with them. It goes right through an A pillar, two strokes for the C pillar, coupe to convertible and barely cracked a sweat. I used to have Gang problems on my street, then I trimmed a two inch diameter branch off one of my front yard trees with a casual backhand stroke. You could count the rings in the sheared surface, like a razor. The Gangers watched me do this, I haven't had Gang problems since. One of my Large Lad customers took down a four inch diameter oak tree with a single stroke. That's like chopping through a green fencepost. He had lots of witnesses, and was at the time, a Duke and Knight in the SCA, for what that's worth. You can't get through plate armor with a piece of sharpened sheetmetal, and chain is even worse because it moves during impact. They're not for everyone. They're 'heavy' to hold, but get them moving and the balance comes into play and they fly. They're alive, they have Names. I made a Great Scimitar for a Hero once, it weighed almost nine pounds. But you should see him dance with it. Nothing can get within six feet of him. He's gotta be a True Paladin, and the blade a Holy Sword, becuase every time he unsheaths it everyone in the vicinity jumps back as though pushed, falls to their knees, and invokes a Deity. Word.
'Of course they glow in the dark, that's how you can tell that they're magic swords...'
Charly
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On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:46:51 GMT, Charly the Bastard

You can conjure some imagery :) Enjoyable read, if you're half as good at your swords as you are your pen ya got somthin there
Forger
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