hello!

Got a place up here in northern (well northern central) California called All Metals that says they can get me whatever I want. They are supposed to do a lot of business in tools steels and stainless. I talked to a rep on the phone for a few minutes recently and he told me that they don't "carry" the sheet non-ferric metals anymore but can get it if I want to place an order. Told me to come in and they would give me a catalog. They have a web site but it's pretty uninformative. I don't think they're very up on the internet business thing. I'll be on vacation next week and I'm planning a trip up there then. Another guy I work with said there's a place in Sacramento that buys up odds and ends of "art metals" and resell it to walk in business. Supposed to be sheets with holes punched out of it - that kind of thing. Planning on doing a run down there too one of these days.

GA

The liner is the standard spongy firebrick that's in everything Paragon makes. The only way to do 'controlled atmosphere' is to wrap the work in inconel foil and throw in a few woodchips into the package to flash off the oxy as the temp comes up, the box doesn't seal airtight. With 5160, the scale isn't bad, and it sheds in the oil tank. What doesn't shed comes right off with a wire wheel. As for damascus, I use it for the HT, it really doesn't get hot enough to weld off of. For welding I've got a dragon in a box.

Concerning guarantees; if I wouldn't bet MY life on it, it doesn't get out the door. That probably comes from my aviation mechanic background, I was expected to 'ride along' on check flights after repairs. A real motivator, that. The only structural failure that the shop has had came from a bowie designed and fabbed by someone else, and I warned him that the shoulder area was weak, but he wouldn't listen. I've never had one of mine come back.

Charly

I get this image of sailing through the air like the Silver Surfer riding a knife blade ;-)

You make the tool suit the purpose. Not all knives *should* be made to withstand anything you can throw at them. You have to sacrifice something to get a really good cutting tool and likewise if you need a "tough" blade. Then there is the "art" vs. utility thing. I personally want to eventually be able to make knives that sombody would hang on the wall or keep for light use just 'cause it looks really nice. Who's gonna spend big dollars for a fancy knife and then butcher elk with it or throw it at trees? For the occasional individual who might seriously have to defend themselves with their knife you don't need "unbreakable", only sturdy and sharp. For a good survival knife I'd want something I can throw at trees, do crude butchering or stand on it if need be - but I'd expect to spend some time sharpening it up later.

GA

LOL Some people will do that very freaking thing! Try a large damascus knife made from O1,1095 and mild steel fitted with silver finger guard and spacer separating coco bolo and purple heart handle.File work all the way down the back side of the blade." Hatcheted" open an elk and then spent the rest of his hunting trip "whittling" up firewood with it. He brought it back to me to "clean" up the blade. I had to destroy the handle to remove it, regrind and the reheat treat the blade. I learned a valuable lesson from that - Always ask what you intend to use the knife for. Then explain the "sacrifices" that have to be met in order to achieve the best blade for that purpose. ie: skinning vs wood chopping. If I know a person will be cracking open an elk and tossing at trees thats fine, I'll make a healthy blade with a flat grind maybe, but if they want something to trim nose hairs, well you know, maybe a tiny hollow ground blade (right tool for the job sort of thing)

Spyderco had an add once that showed one of their folders sawing through a steel cable. I took that to heart, my broadswords can do the 'hanging rope' test with half-inch cable. It helps to hang an exhaust manifold on the cable to straighten it out, but it's not like hanging an anvil and putting the cable under noticable tension. (Atar thought they were too thick, but I got the dimensions from the British Museum; .321" thick at the spine. .290" stock was as close as I could get in bulk) I make weapons, I don't make wall hangers. Yeah, if you try to cleave the nose off an anvil, you'll ding the blade, but it won't fail and leave you with just a handle. I sent one with a buddy down to Ft Swill, and he took it out on the tank range and had an 8" Self Propelled drive over it repeatedly. It scratched up the furniture, didn't even break the oxide coat on the blade.

Charly

Don't s'pose you got a video of that posted somewhere? Not calling you a liar, just have a hard time wrapping my brain around that one.

GA

Don't know about Charly's blades, but I've personally seen a piece of

1/2 square mild steel sharpened like a pencil with one of Tinker's swords, made of 5160. No damage to the blade. In fact, it seemed barely dulled.

I had a hard time wrapping my mind around that one, too, and I was watching!:)

I don't think the wire rope cutting can be ruled out for properly hardened and tempered blades of the right material.

Its pretty easy to make a blade chop a nail in half or shave mild steel, I've even whacked into my vice a few times(accidentally) with no damage to a blade. But I have to admit, 1/2" steel cable, thats one I would have to see to believe.

Cool. :) Which steel and at what draw? Or is the edge different from rest?

Actually I'm just the opposite, make cutting tools and not weapons, but that doesn't mean I'm not still interested in how. :)

Alvin in AZ

Charly the Bastard wrote: (snip)

As per my other post, it looks like I'm golden. I've been following the safety procedures recommened by the experts in the field. My main problem was skipping my heavy metals screening for a few years. Todd

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: (snip)

Well, the cadmium test clotted up and I have to get retested on that, but the lead, arsenic, antimony, and tin tests all came out to below detectable levels. The barium showed up at 93 micrograms per liter, which is a little high, but not serious, and given I am baseline on all the other tests is probably due to another source.

No test for mercury, since the enamels I use don't use mercury.

I have been lax as the last few years as far as getting tested because I haven't done that much in the way of enamelling. However the lady who taught me enamelling in checking out other health problems tested really high for antimony, and elevated for tin, cadmium and arsenic. They think it was from outgassing using a line of German enamels that I have never used (the company went out of business a few years ago). I use a Japanese line of enamels that don't seem to have that problem. Though I will probably design a fume hood for my small kiln to be on the safe side.

They are talking about doing chelation for my friend, but given that the line of enamels we are using now doesn't seem to be the problem she will still be able to enamel without further damage. Todd

Todd:

THAT is good news...

Damn some of that heavy metal stuff can lay you lower than low and in a very painfull way too. I will keep a good thought for your lady friend..

JPH

That's an easy one, 5160 spheroidized, oil quenched from 1600 F, draw to

465 F for two hours and cool in still ambient. Rc 54-55. A Nicholson will readily dress the edge, a sharp one that is. Probably what's more important is the bevel angle, which is 22 degrees included and the four pounds mass. I'm not small, but I'm not Hulk Hogan either. You gotta completely follow through, no half measures here, use your whole body, but yeah you can chop through half inch 7X19 extra flexible without dinging up the blade. I've done this five times. it threw sparks once. I really don't feel like it today though, maybe in the Spring...

Charly

I helped to make these blades, they will do this. one of rhe final tests before leaving the shop is to thrust into a 50 gallon drum and take one cut at it and there is a light polish to the blade at the impact point at the most.

"a football game is poor use of a site that has already been marked out so conveniently as a pistol range" " Hunter"

I can hammer a soft nail easily through a 55 gallon drum, thats thin soft steel. There should be no doubt about thrusting a sharp blade into one. But 1/2" steel cable is another story. I have a 8000lb winch in the back of my truck with no thicker than 5/16" cable and while it may be concievable that a serrated blade could saw through each individual strand before becoming totally worthless, it is hard for me to imagine, even if the cable was stressed to 1000 lbs, chopping clean through it by hand using a sword. Tell ya what, if I could do that I would be doing demos everywhere and probably have to hire someone to manage all that extra money :)

Forger

Do it! :) Lynn Thomson (sp?) (cold steel) made a fortune like you say. :)

There was a "knife edge holding test" by some knifemakers guild and a guy wrote it up after he realized he just cut the free hanging rope with a blade that never got to austenitizing temperature so was dead soft! :) Edge geometry and swinging technique was settled on as what the 1"+ hanging rope test was really about. :) It was about time too. :/

Do like they say... I'm betting it'll work. Edge geometry, skill, and a decently hard and strong steel blade, I bet'll do it just like they say. :)

Other than that, I don't know shit about it tho. :/

Prove me right or wrong I don't care which. :)

Alvin in AZ

Ok.. the hanging rope test for Journeyman Bladesmith is: "- A sufficient length of one (1) inch minimum diameter sisal or manila rope"

Its taped off as to where to cut it. About every foot if I remember right. Its not steel cable and it's great stuff to compare blades (number of cuts)

That is not what I'm talk>Spyderco had an add once that showed one of their folders sawing through a steel

I read that as he does the hanging rope test with not sisal, not manila, but "steel" cable. Inotherwords Spyderco sawed through steel cable, he can do the hanging rope test with steel cable.

Now if you can show me that Lynn Thompson of Cold Steel cut through free hanging 1 inch steel cable with a soft blade then all I can say is HOLY SHIT I need to work on my swing! (and I'm gonna stand WAY back next time I winch something heavy into my truck)

Forger

Forger wrote:

It was half inch 7x19 that we scrounged from the hiway dept. I think they used it for guardrail between the wood posts. It may not be the 'aircraft' cable that everyone thinks of, it didn't weld for beans. But still, even dead soft it's nothing to sneeze at. We've chopped up cars with them. It goes right through an A pillar, two strokes for the C pillar, coupe to convertible and barely cracked a sweat. I used to have Gang problems on my street, then I trimmed a two inch diameter branch off one of my front yard trees with a casual backhand stroke. You could count the rings in the sheared surface, like a razor. The Gangers watched me do this, I haven't had Gang problems since. One of my Large Lad customers took down a four inch diameter oak tree with a single stroke. That's like chopping through a green fencepost. He had lots of witnesses, and was at the time, a Duke and Knight in the SCA, for what that's worth. You can't get through plate armor with a piece of sharpened sheetmetal, and chain is even worse because it moves during impact. They're not for everyone. They're 'heavy' to hold, but get them moving and the balance comes into play and they fly. They're alive, they have Names. I made a Great Scimitar for a Hero once, it weighed almost nine pounds. But you should see him dance with it. Nothing can get within six feet of him. He's gotta be a True Paladin, and the blade a Holy Sword, becuase every time he unsheaths it everyone in the vicinity jumps back as though pushed, falls to their knees, and invokes a Deity. Word.

'Of course they glow in the dark, that's how you can tell that they're magic swords...'

Charly

You can conjure some imagery :) Enjoyable read, if you're half as good at your swords as you are your pen ya got somthin there

Forger