hello!

:/ And very unfinished - but thanks! I'll have a handle on the hatchet and the Utility blade in a day or two. I'll try to post a pic of the leaf blade shortly, now that I put a (pre-heat treated) edge to it. It came out pretty but is still rough. I've got to come up with a large enough quench tank for the short swords and I expect to be quite a while putting the furniture together for them. I'd like to do some layered wood and metal fittings for the leaf blade.

GA

snipped-for-privacy@XX.com Spaketh Thusly:

Been a long time Dr. H! We've missed you on r.k

-- Bill H. [my "reply to" address is real]

Molon Labe!

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: (snip)

A friend of mine is active duty Army. He was told in June that they would tell him where they are going to transfer him in 90 days. He still doesn't know.

Yeah, I know how that goes. Well, I've got until Wednesday until I find out if I get to keep enameling. (Tests for cadmium, barium, lead, arsenic, antimony, and tin come back then) Good luck on being able to spend time at home and in the shop. Todd

For the quench tank, think vertical quench in a 6" pipe. That's what mine is, works like a champ. Just be sure to make the baseplate big enough to make the finished and filled tank stable, or big enough to pile cinder blocks onto. Tall narrow tanks are inherently tippy, specially when they're filled with something potentially dangerous. I think there's about eight gallons of oil in mine, and I can usually get three sword blades through before it gets too hot. So for a single piece quench, it's more than enough thermal capacity.

Charly

This is what I get for posting before the first pot of coffee soaks in... There will be a flash fire and the potential for violent splatter of both ignited and superheated oil as the steel penetrates the surface, take appropriate safety measures. It usually goes out after the blade is completely immersed in the oil. Keep immersed until the convection roil stops at the surface, the blade should be down to under 250 degrees by then. 5160 usually comes out of the tank at around

61-62 Rc, a new file will just bite with a hard push.

Hello:

Bill: I am like a bad penny...ya neve know when I'll turn up and rear my ugly head,,as far as Rec. Knives goes, I simply got tired of all the jerks flaming folks who: 1, know more than they do, and start getting nasty when those that do know more post something and 2: The flamers who just like to start trouble when someone tries to help out someone else who asks for a bit of help. I do not have time for the trolls or assinine behaviour of so called adults that want to act like 4 year olds.

Todd: Heavy Metals screening?? Oh man..I will hold a good thought. They doing a test for Hg as well?? Man that would bite if ya had to give up enamals...

Charly: 6" pipe?? That's all?? no wonder you can only get 3 blades until it overheats. But if that works for you..great. My quenching tank for oil is 16" square and 48" long, 40" of which is oil depth. Had it made out of 10 guage HR. Got in on wheels so I can move it where I need it.

JPH

Interesting to see you back here.

How did the grinder spindles that I made for you work out? Still using them?

Still waiting on the blade that was offered in return. Not holding my breath, though. I suppose I should not be too surprised, as you did not bother to take the time to as much as send me an email saying that you had received them, whether they had turned out useful or otherwise.

Worth noting that the email address (mine) is still the same as it was when last we communicated. And I have been a regular (of sorts) here for as long as this has gone on, so it's not like you could not have contacted me.

I still keep your fax up on my shop wall. It serves well to remind me of what to expect when I take on a job for someone. Oh well.

Yeah, I'm a bit bitter about this. That's what I tell my friends, anyway.

Cheers Trevor Jones

I had something like that in mind. Was wondering if I could get away with using PVC for the pipe and maybe four or five inch diameter. As long as there is room to accomodate the curvature induced in a clay coated japanese style blade. Don't ever expect to quench more than two items at a time. As for tippy - I do all the hot work in the back yard anyway so I thought I could dig a hole to set the pipe into. Speaking of vertical. Has anybody experimented with setting a tube shaped forge standing or mounted upright with the burner at the bottom for heat treating long blades? I was wondering if I could get the heat distribution better that way.

GA

Been using Vetrinary grade Mineral oil for 5160 and quite happy with it. Haven't done any really big stuff yet but the ignition has been really subdued. More like a candle flame around the metal as it goes in and virtually no splatter. That said, I plan to attach an extended handle to the work and will wear safety goggles. As already stated, I do hot work in the back yard and diving for cover is not out of the question either ;-)

GA

"Need a bigger target" was my first reaction to the 6" pipe. :/

I went to a stainless steel commercial soda pop tank (~9" dia) for just butcher knife sized stuff.

Got it cheap from my home away from home... the scrap yard. ;)

JPH, you use commercial quenching oil?

Alvin in AZ

I'm with you on that one! Quick to mark an entire thread as read too. I'm a lot more partial to this group but it's not as active all the time so I go scan the knives group when killing time.

For people like me - I'll probably never have more than a single piece of work at the same place in construction at a time (though I have shown a tendancy to get a few waiting for fit and finish - I like the metal shaping better). easy setup and tear down (and stowage) is important for me. My forge weighs in at about five or six pounds and is an extremely simple (and portable) construction. My anvil is made from railroad rail iron and has a angle iron stand that can be taken down and moved around easily. It's a pretty unusual hobby for a suburbanite slob living in the middle of town ;-)

GA

It's a small building and it could be catagorized as 'object rich'. There are paths between the stacks and machines. Since it was only me working, a couple blades a day was about all the output there was, so it worked okay. I wish there were five of me, so every machine station would be manned at once. You do with what you have handy. There's a lot of 6" pipe at the scrapyard.

Charly

Don't use Plastic Pipe. If you drop the blade, it'll melt through the bottom and you have a spill to clean up, not to mention the toxic fumes that PVC puts off. The scrapyards are full of big pipe, and getting a cap welded on by a code welder isn't that expensive. Penny wise and pound foolish.

On the vertical HT box, you'd need to come up with a way of suspending the blade that wouldn't erode away in the heat of repeated use, and some sort of diverter at the bottom so the blade wouldn't be exposed to direct live flame, but other than that, it should work. The next hurdle would be getting the hot blade out of the box and into the tank before it cools off.

Me, I use electric that's computer controlled, with a saddle to support the blades in the box so they get up off the floor and don't sag as thay come to temp.

Charly

Not too worried about a spill with the tank in a hole in the back yard but yeah, that thought occured to me. Need to find out what sizes Alvins soda canisters come in. Maybe even get two welded together. Stainless steel

*does* have it's uses.

I planned to clamp the tang between two mild steel flat stock bolted together for a handle. If it burns up in, say thirty or a hundred uses it's no sweat. You're thinking industrial and I am just a hobbyist.

Hmmm. Good point - at least for longer blades. I've already been thinkin about heat soaks and diversions. Easier to play with horizontally. I bit harder on the vertical.

Naw. Up over and down. No real difference from a vertical forge - easier on the blade. I keep getting the feeling you're thinking in terms of automation?

Cheater. ;-) What's that rig cost? How big is it? Does it use under 15 amps? Run on household wiring? Do complex soaks and ramps? - not that I'd ever consider using something like that. Wimpish.

GA

Hey, high tech where it counts. How much? When I got mine, it was a special order from Paragon, but now it's in their catalog. How deep? 36" x4"x4.5". It needs 220, but draws just under 15 A., so a window A/C or dryer outlet will carry it. Any bigger and Paragon said it would need 3 phase, and OG&E won't run

3 phase into a residential area. Digital controller, any heat/cool profile you can think of, 2000 degree max, but that might have been uprated in the passing years since I got mine. Paragon has controllers that go to 2500 degrees, so they probably have elements that will push the box there too. You'll have to check with Paragon for current pricing, but I will say this, it's worth the money. I've had mine for over a decade and it's still going strong. Good service life.

Charly

Nice. I'm jealous. The part you never got around to mentioning is a 1500 dollar price tag. 2 grand for the 40someodd inch model but still single phase 220. All things considered it's not a bad price tag and well worth doing if you thinking like a production professional. As a hobby knife maker that would be a bit much. Still I can dream...

GA

message

I dunno... mine paid for itself in the first batch. The beauty of it is in the controller, +1/-3 degrees from the setpoint, first time every time. You can make magic with control that fine. With stock of known composition, I can guarantee Rockwell to +/- half a point, and the tester backs it up. Here in Okiehohum, you can make $12,000 a year off a hobby tax free, you might want to check into how much in your state. There's big bux in good damascus, even here in the armpit of the universe. What's really funny is that cable goes over really well with the oilies when you tell them what the blade is made from. I guess it's because they work with this stuff every day and they KNOW how much load it will take.

Charly

Get yourself a 'Moon Suit' dude. Deduct it as a tooling expense, it's safety equipment.

Charly

I guess if a person were getting a couple hundred or more for a blade it would be silly not to get something like that. It would be quality assurance. My stuff has a ways to go before I'll be comfortable selling it to strangers. You can give a lifetime guarantee to folks you know and back it up with confidence. How is the scale when you use it? Doing any controlled atmosphere? Whats the liner (oven) like? Speaking of damascus, do you use the oven for that? I'm dying to try doing some Mokume - copper and silver (nickle?) something cheap but impressive looking. Got a place not too far from here I need to go visit (as soon as I can get a weekday off) that sells specialty metals.

GA