Need help identifying this wood species

Being a desert rat I don't know nuthin about wood but I want to guess anyway. :)

Eucalyptus Elm

Alvin in AZ

Which country are you in? Where did the wood come from?

Can you dent it with a hammer? How easily?

Can you mark it with an axe? How easily?

What does it smell like?

THese may seem like strange questions, but I have some friends that might know.

Regards Charles

raffo wrote:

Close up of the rings might have helped - but from the tight grain - I suspect oak from the wavy lines. Is it oily - then down under tree.

The golden color tends to say oak. But the actual cell grain tells most.

There are so many types of oak - it could be a any one of several dozen. Might be maple as well. But a little grainy maybe.

Location, location & location. where... Assume you have oak there and know an acorn - how did you get it - pre-cut or wood pile ?

Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Endowment Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot"s Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.

raffo wrote:

I'm a little tempted to go with oak as well, judging from the slightly open grain in the third picture and the wieght, but oak will weather to a silver-gray color pretty quickly if left exposed to the elements- did you just strip the bark, or has it been like that for a while? The cracking indicates oak as well.

I'd rule out Maple. It's the wrong color, and the grain is nowhere near right. Birch is also out of the question, even though the color can be similar to what you've got.

Others to look at are persimmon and hophornbeam. Both are very heavy, and often mistaken for oak when people get a bit of mystery wood. Persimmon will have very dark annual rings on the top that a usually quite close together. Hophornbeam is so incredibly dense that it's really tough to drive a nail into- often requiring a hand sledge to do it.

If you can cut a thin slice off one side and smooth it a little to show the face grain, that would go a long way towards figuring out what it is. Just looking at a stump is pretty tough.

Information about where the tree grew is useful as well- some species can be eliminated pretty quickly by looking at the zone where the tree grew.

The place I live is Glendale, California. I picked this up from a wood scrap yard that a tree trimmer uses to dump his waste. So, I'm confident that the wood is from the southern California area. I took another picture of the top, so that you guys might get a better view of the structure. I'm puzzled if you say it is Oak, because it's my understanding that the last picture is of an Oak, and that has an entirely different look and feel to the first one... Strange. Anyway, all your suggestions and conjectures are much appreciated.

Raffi.

Prometheus wrote:

"raffo" wrote in news:1166335404.347989.225760 @t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Oak can vary greatly in color and weight and, most especially, in bark texture.

Frequently, different species of Oak can be identified simply by their bark: Blackjack, for example, has a black, knobby bark that's totally different from Post Oak's light grey, checked, bark.

Since the bark has been removed from the first piece, it's hard to say which Oak it came from.

It IS an Oak, though.

The second piece may ALSO be Oak but from a different species.

Yep. Without the bark and without an look at the face grain, I was going off the texture of the wood visible on the outside, and the size of the cracks in the top and sides The grain is the more compelling of the two, because of the slightly swirly open texture with characteristic oak color variation, and the cracks add a little supporting evidence.

The cracks are a result of radial v. tangential shrinkage, and that's different for every species. There is a fairly large difference between those two numbers with oak, and that causes those open cracks. Most species will crack to some extent, but not open wide fissures like that.

Then again, it could be something entirely different- not too much wood from California makes it's way up here to western Wisconsin, so it may be something I haven't had the opportunity to encounter yet. If it was up here, I'd say it was red oak, no question. Since it's halfway across the country and south of me, it could be something that only grows in a more mild climate- but oak is a safe bet, especially considering that the wood is dried and cracked enough to really only be good for something like bolting an anvil on top of it, which I assume is the intended use.

Yes. I'm trying to find out what type of wood it is, because I have a pocket reference book that tells me the hardness value, and split-resistance value of many species of woods. I have a 275 pound anvil, and want it to have a stable, solid base, that wont split or crack on me. I was thinking of putting iron rings around the log, to brace it, putting them on red hot so when they cool they form a tight grip around the log, reinforcing it. I believe that's how they changed the 'tires' of the old horse-drawn wagons. Anyway, I don't quite know how to put red hot rings on to a log yet, so maybe i'll have to re-read my books... But I don't have to do it this way I could bolt too semi-circle ring halves together, tight, this would accomplish the same thing.... However, if the wood is strong enough, I shouldn't have to do any of this. That's why I'm trying to find out what I've got. People in other news groups are tellin me I shout cut a bit of it off, so I can see the inside grain. But I don't wanna go cutting it cuzz I may want to use it in the future. Maybe I can get a bit off, I'll see.

Thanks for all your input and help guys.

I'd just put a single band of flat bar around the circumference, then it doesn't matter what the wood is. I'd bolt the ring, and just nail it in place with holes pre-drilled in the metal band place.

If you wanted to make a solid rim, then you have to make it under size, and have a friend to help. Start a bonfire, put your solid unbroken ring into the bonfire. Wait until it expands so that it just fits over the log. It would help if the log was close to perfectly round. When in place douse with water, it should shrink fit.

My view for this application is "if you don't need to do the work then don't".

One thing you should know is that you can use very thin metal to reinforce that log, even a strip of sheet will do.

Regards Charles

raffo wrote:

Oak will split readily, but I don't know that that is an issue when you're talking about hammering on it with the footprint of an anvil. When you split, you get something thin between the fibers and drive in a wedge to pull them apart- but you can hit the end grain of most woods with a hammer all day, and you won't get much more than dents for your trouble. You may be making more of it that you need to.

Or look up "coopering". That's the same way they used to make oak barrels. As far as I know, it was usually done with a strip of metal with a hole or two in each end that was heated red hot, then wrapped around the wood. A rivet was then driven into each hole, and hammered flat. Then the whole thing was doused in water to cool and shrink it quickly. At least, that is the method I've seen on TV once or twice and have read descriptions of- I don't personally know anyone that does it.

I wouldn't worry about doing it unless you just want it to look a certain way. Whatever it is, it's hardwood, and not something like a hunk of basswood or pine- It should take a fair amount of punishment without any noticable problems. I've seen plenty of artists in the past who have anvils on regular oak stumps without bands that seem to have been working out just fine.

When Prometheus put fingers to keys it was 12/20/06 6:39 AM...

What he said.

The grain on the side of the OP's stump looks pretty swirly. I don't see it splitting anytime soon. (_I_ think it looks too swirly for oak)

Hmmm... far as I know, coopering is done cold, and depends on the taper of the barrel or bucket, the riveted hoops are driven onto the item to tighten it. You've described the technique for assembling/re-tire-ing a wagon wheel, except wagon tires are welded.

One of my stumps _is_ pine. Works fine. It does have a massive crack in one side which is aesthetically unpleasing, but it doesn't interfere with function.

The checking in the top of the OP's stump suggests to me that it has dried and is unlikely to check much further. I say 'just use it'.

-- Carl West Prospect Hill Forge: The Blacksmithing Classroom

All you need for a band is some banding strap and a couple of 20 penny nails. You can find banding strap at a scrapyard, usually in great tangled piles. All you need is dimensional stability, you don't need to actually put the log in compression. Just cut a piece to length plus a few inches, drill a few holes through the strap overlap, and drive in the nails to lock it to size and to the stump. One band at each end should do it quite nicely. Mount your anvil and go to work.

Charly

Oh, if you're determined to do the hot hoop shrink to squeeze method, then make the hoop

1/16" shorter than the circumference for every foot of diameter. When you heat it to cherry red, it will grow almost an eighth of an inch per foot of circumference and should slip right on. I found this formula in an olde blacksmithing manual concerning iron tires for wagon wheels, and they seem to stay on the wood quite well.

Charly

Yeah, that's why I WAG'ed at "you-clipped-us" early on but Modesto Oak is kind swirly like that, since it's like one step up from shrub oak or something. ;)

Alvin in AZ (don't know nuthin'bout wood)

Might be Almond. Martin

Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Endowment Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot"s Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.

snewt wrote: