ER Collets / Recommendations needed

Hi to all,
Our company is looking at a series of high volume steel parts to be run on our multi-spindle screw machines. This family of parts has some
high depth-to-drill diameter ratios. The drilling operations will be broken down into 4-5 stations.
For most of our work, we currently use Erickson style DA collet holders.
For the new work with deeper holes, we are looking at a quick-change system that utilizes ER style colllets. We feel that the quick change would be beneficial for changing and resetting drills on these high volume jobs.
The hole diameters range from .093 to .375. Hole depths range from 9 to 16 times the diameter of the drill.
ER-16 collets would cover the range of drills we would currently be using. We could use ER-16 / ER-20 / ER-25 / or ER-32. The cost differential between the above listed styles is minimal.
Due to the fact that we may in the future go to parts that require larger size drills, we are leaning toward the capacity of the ER-32 style system.
Are there any disadvantages going with the larger than necessary capacity? Do you lose some accuracy/concentricity using the ER-32 over the ER-16 system?
Any comments appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Bob
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snipped-for-privacy@marshallusa.com wrote:

Bob, I know from experience on TG style holders that a small dia. shank, like 1/8" doesn't run as true in a TG 75 series holder as it does in an smaller series TG holder. Not sure about ER series collets.
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Steve Saling
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Bob,
Consider talking to El Dorado for gun drills made for your application. They'll hold size, give a great finish and go as deep as you need. We used one for a Citizen, 5MM, 4 inches deep. They made some special (shorter than normal). Otherwise, ER16 should get you what you need.
Beege

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Beege wrote:

Beege,
Thanks for your reply and suggestion on the gun drills. With the Citizen, you are running a single spindle operation.......Do you know if the gun-drilling application is good for when you are breaking up the drilling into multiple stations?? Not sure if carbide tipped drill is suitable for any slight misalignment that may occur with multi-spindle application......Also, is high pressure coolant thru the gun-drill required on your Citizen set-up??
Bob
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Bob,
Sorry, didn't notice the "multpile spindle" on your OP. Don't know how it wold work for you. Generally a one-shot drill, and it would take too long at one station. High pressure was required (800psi). Wouldn't hurt to give ElDorado a call just the same, though.
Beege
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Top posted to save ME time... Sorry!
Check out http://www.techniksusa.com/wood/erpcm.htm
I believe the tolerances are the same - except that the larger ER spindles will put you out farther from the source driving them - and thus will magnify any runout that the machine itself may have.
Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R

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snipped-for-privacy@marshallusa.com wrote:

Bob,I seem to be missing something.I run multispindles and although we have ER chucks and collets by the hundred tend to use mainly DA style collet chucks in these machines and fail to see how you would save time using ER collets.I would think the time to loosen and tighten both types would be about the same.I have never had concentricity/gripping problems with the DA`s either.I only use Guhring drills,extensive trials on our jobs (all steel) proved that no other make would drill as many holes as Guhrings,comparing like with like. I don`t think a gun drill is suitable for a multispindle where the total depth drilled is broken down between several positions. Mark www.ems-fife.co.uk
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snipped-for-privacy@marshallusa.com wrote in

Hi Bob,
I would prefer not to use an ER32 collet for a 3/32" drill myself. Which quick change system are you considering? With the Kennametal one you should be able to buy both ER16 and ER32 adapters that will fit the same shank in the machine. If you are considering the one from American QC Systems, it works by adapting down. So an ER32 collet chuck will use an ER25 quick change chuck, an ER25 will use an ER20, etc..
One advantage of the AQCS is that they have boring sleeve adapters, but that's probably not going to be a big feature on a multi.
If you are not familiar with the American QC quick change holders, I posted the contact info for them on the PMPA Technical Listserve today in response to a question about ER8 collets. I'd post it here but I'm at home right now and don't have it handy.
Google turned this up. Sounds about right, they are in Bradenton, FL.
<http://www.production-machining.com/dp/showpm/show_index.cfm? code=AMERIQC&lcode=RL>
--

Dan

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