Group,
I had to hook up a data server for a fanuc control today. I got to thinking of all the expensive and sometimes cumbersome methods of workarounds to a very simple problem. Lack of memory. Does anyone who works for fanuc know why lack of memory is still an issue with fanuc? There is an excellent business opportunity for anyone who can take a fanuc memory board and bolt on a gig of memory without a work around. Does anyone know of anyone who can do this?
Bill,
Memex
Tulip
Probly there's several others.
Unfortunately, even Tulip doesn't have the answer to this one. I had a discussion with Tulip's owner this week about this very subject. He was complaining that Fanuc's design doesn't allow him to get past a few megs.
I think it is a matter of Fanuc being out of touch with their market. They don't seem to think we'll need it. (Remember Bill Gates' famous memory comment)
The high end profiling controls (MDSI, Fidia, et al) can do this easily, courtesy of Intel's R&D.
Warren
Maybe it is because I am a one man band business, but I just don't understand the philosophy of not giving your customers what they want.
30 years ago memory was an issue. With todays technology there really isn't an excuse for virtually unlimited memory. Even if it were a cost issue. A PC/MCIA (sp) card port has to be more expensive to purchase and install than just installing a fatter memory chip. Can you imagine that meeting at Fanuc: Someone says the customers want more memory. Someone else says Fuckem, we spend 2 dollars on a PC/MCIA card port so we don't have to spend 1/10 of a cent on a fatter chip. Someone else say keep up the good work?
Old designs, why change it? Look at the new Fanuc 30 series controls, more PC based, more memory. But I think they still limit you to the number of programs available to the control memory. Just like the older Fanuc controls, more program storage is an option from Fanuc.
samruai.
From: "Warren" Subject: Re: Fanuc Memory Question Date: Friday, March 07, 2008 11:08 PM
Not really. It's more a matter of FANUC having decided what market they target and not caring much about the rest. You'd have a hard time arguing that they had made a mistake.
Wrong. They just don't care and that is your gripe. There are control technologies, Warren, that UpTime services and there are those that you don't. I haven't seen FANUC complain that you haven't expanded your horizons ad infinitum. They don't, nor does the rest of the world, question your judgment or choice. It's more than a little amusing that you won't allow them the same latitude.
LOL They adopted the Intel model and they didn't do it as a courtesy. Neither did Intel. You have the situation exactly backwards.
JC
Their customers are anyone with a Fanuc control. Lathes don't need that much memory but mills do. I don't know of anyone with a mill that hasn't at one time or another had to cobble a lack of memory workaround. I know why they refuse to add memory space to their controls, I just don't understand the motivation. If you have been around awhile and watched cnc's evolve you know Fanucs reputation for lack of memory and cobble a workaround without much thought. It's kinda hard to explain Fanucs philosophy to a new customer who was born in the computer age. More and more of their customers are born in that time and just don't understand lack of memory in a computer.
Bill, I can believe you don't understand it but it is true none the less. The real question is why builders don't migrate to other control technology. I don't think there is a single answer to this question but I know a bunch. The builders, not end users, are Fanuc's actual customer and that group continues to buy Fanuc technology. They consider the plus side outweighs the minus. That, and the actual structure of the machine tool business is what you would tell your customer.
Well, no question it is a bullet proof control. What it does it does real well. As long as the drives are Fanuc too. A Fanuc by itself is limited by third party drives. That being said, other than sheer stubborness there is no reason to not offer a gig of memory. Even if it is a $2500 option where they change an option parameter and add an eprom. You are a businessman, if a 1/100 of a cent investment yields a $2500 profit and customers would line up to buy it you wouldn't do it?
Kurt and Holly Cardenas tried mating FADAL Iron, a Fanuc control and Yaskawa drive once. This was when FADAL only had the Legacy control or the MP32. I don't think they ever got it running. Other than that, I didn't think anyone was foolish enough not to buy the installation as a kit unless they were building transfer equipment or cells. When I say Fanuc control technology I mean the control and everything connected to it except aux. equipment, including the spindle drive. That is generally what is supplied.
It isn't possible to map memory space beyond a certain point Bill. The early Fanuc's were 4, and then 8 bit machines. The exception was their Motorola RISC based system and that was a 32 and then 64 bit architecture. You can't adress the memory at either the physical or logical level beyond a certain point and that has to do with both hardware architecture, which isn't really upgradeable, and software architecture,which sometimes is. There are a bunch of very straight forward solutions to resolve the issue and they have been around a long time. Your customers complaint is really price and not avaliability isn't it? I mean, the guy probably said he could buy and entire PC with goo gobs of memory for a fraction of the cost of the upgrade to far less memory on his Fanuc. Isn't that about it? All your guy has to do is upgrade his hardware to 30i series stuff and he can put in all of the ten dollar memory he wants. They run PowerPc chips.
Sure, just tell him he didn't spend enough to get something that is in cheap abundance in every other computer device he comes into contact with. I don't have any one customer complaining, it is just a question I have after listening to customers over the years.
I've heard the same thing a million times myself Bill. I generally make a comment to the effect that Fanuc are just a bunch of bastards and move on. They aren't really but once you or I are standing in front of a customer and his hardware he doesn't care about anything but a solution. The Fanuc Data Server is Fanuc's answer to memory limitations in their first and second decade control technology and it has proven itself over the years to be reliable, cost effective and extensible. You can upgrade the size of many of these things both cheaply and easily. The new decade one servers allow for hard drives, SDRAM or PCMCIA form factors all in the same device. That means a "memory" upgrade to 2 gigabytes on a PCMCIA server from 128 megs is $19.95. That is effectively zero in my book and doesn't require a tech or software upgrade.
You can thank Mazak and Haas for getting the ball rolling on that one. Tremendous amounts of program storage for a minimal charge. If not for the competition, We'd still be FanuUCKED with 64 registered programs and 300 "meters" of memory!
LOL
FANUC Model 0 A/B/C/D & 04PC Memory Upgrade Kits
A very popular control, the biggest drawback is their 320 Meter (128k) memo ry size limit that Fanuc 0 B & C controls can reach. The old Fanuc 0A is li mited further to only 48k (120 Meters of part program storage). Nexas can s upply a memory upgrade kit of components and detailed installation instruct ions to allow one to upgrade their Fanuc 0 control themselves.
Fanuc 0 controls do have a DNC option (called DNCI) if enabled by the machi ne tool builder - look for what can toggle G127 Bit 5 on such as a key swit ch, keep relay, software operators panel virtual switch, etc. The Fanuc 0C has 2 RS-232C serial ports (M5 and M74) that can max out at 9600 and 19200 baud respectively. Nexas has a special kit with cabling to enable the high speed 19200 port by the way.
email me at snipped-for-privacy@nexasnet.com or visit
thinking of all the expensive and sometimes cumbersome methods of workaroun ds to a very simple problem. Lack of memory. Does anyone who works for fanu c know why lack of memory is still an issue with fanuc? There is an excelle nt business opportunity for anyone who can take a fanuc memory board and bo lt on a gig of memory without a work around. Does anyone know of anyone who can do this?
FANUC Model 0 A/B/C/D & 04PC Memory Upgrade Kits
A very popular control, the biggest drawback is their 320 Meter (128k) memo ry size limit that Fanuc 0 B & C controls can reach. The old Fanuc 0A is li mited further to only 48k (120 Meters of part program storage). Nexas can s upply a memory upgrade kit of components and detailed installation instruct ions to allow one to upgrade their Fanuc 0 control themselves.
Fanuc 0 controls do have a DNC option (called DNCI) if enabled by the machi ne tool builder - look for what can toggle G127 Bit 5 on such as a key swit ch, keep relay, software operators panel virtual switch, etc. The Fanuc 0C has 2 RS-232C serial ports (M5 and M74) that can max out at 9600 and 19200 baud respectively. Nexas has a special kit with cabling to enable the high speed 19200 port by the way.
Shoot me an email at snipped-for-privacy@nexasnet.com or visit
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