Fanul, Fadal Haas Controls - what is up with this?

To me, a Fanuc control is like a clarinet. If you can play a clarinet you can play any other woodwind musical instrument. If you're proficient with a Fanuc you shouldn't have any trouble running anything else.

Then there are the igits from the political and kook newsgroups who play a mean meat whistle, but that's something else entirely.

HTH

------------- This appears to be another area where an enforced "standard" is desperately needed.

At least one standard already exists [ISO/DIN] [ISO 6983, 66025 &

14649 for controllers, but no one seems to implement it 100%. What's our money players take on a governmental requirement that all new CNC machines/controllers sold in the US as of some cut-off date must adhere to the ISO or other standard, and if a program runs on an ISO controller it must run on the new controller, unless the machine has non-standard/ 1-off features [and then only for those features].

This has already been done for automatic transmission shift patterns [PRNDL] and mandating left side shift levers for motorcycles, with entirely satisfactory results.

Anyone got a guess on how many thousands [millions?] of man-hours are wasted and machine crashes caused by the proprietary G-dialects? Do you think this is justified?

Is there any reason, other than tradition/inertia for the different "standards?"

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

F. George McDuffee wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Let's kill off another struggling industry with unwanted/unecessary regulation.

There's a bit more variety and capability with machine tools than with cars and bikes.

None. Crashes are caused by people making mistakes.

No.

Competitive advantage for one.

The government doesn't know shit about manufacturing and should have as little say as possible about CNC controls.

It's really a non issue.

I'd like to see a compelling case made for that George.

Zero.

Something that doesn't happen need not be justified.

Besides productivity? No, I don't believe so. That one alone is enough.

JC

G code editing on a Haas control is superior to anything Fanuc has especially Fanuc's Manual Guide i which is the worst piece of crap I have ever used. Fanuc controls are reliable and fast but when it comes to editing G code Fanuc is probably the worst control available.

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

Why are you trying to do so much editing at the control?

Because Jon doesn't/didn't know how to use CAM.

Jon did say he couldn't get good reliable G-Code out of MasterCAM. He said it was because their post processor needed work but they were "too busy" (code for he hadn't a clue how to edit/fix it) and too cheap to pay someone a couple of bucks for a quick and simple post fix.

-- Tom

These ads should be a red flag that the owner is looking for someone to "push buttons" and has a low pay ceiling in mind. The ad should read things like, "XX number of years experience, knowledge of feeds, speeds, materials, basic gcode editing skills, team player, etc..." Every shop I've worked at (and there's been a few...) had controls of all shapes and sizes. It's NEVER about the control.

-- Bill

This is a sad example of the dumbing down of our entire culture. Even fields that rely on skills and technology are afflicted.

Too many people, because of their ignorance, think that programming or using the control is what machining is all about. Imagine stepping into the cockpit of a space shuttle and oggling all the instruments. To someone who doesn't understand them, they look daunting, and it appears that learning the meaning of all the switches and buttons, and the purpose of all the dials and gauges, is what's needed to get into space. The little details, like how a rocket motor works, why you need a heat shield, or what's likely to go wrong and how to deal with it, are completely lost in the fear/envy/hunger about learning the buttons and readouts.

Machine operators are the same way. There are too many people who "know" Fanuc controls, or Hass controls, or Mazatrols, who DON'T know which end of a drill bit is the business end. What our industry needs is people who know how to cut metal.

For those who don't know the basics, and the reasons for them, the control becomes everything, including a scapegoat. "I know how to do this. I'm just not used to the way this control works. At my last job, the offsets were all incremental. Here, I have to enter the whole value. That takes some getting used to." This, as a way to explain the fact that a $400 milling cutter just welded itself to a $4,000 fixture because:

A. Somebody was too busy worrying about how to code the program, and didn't pay enough attention to even attempting to understand what was actually being programmed.

B. Somebody had no clue about the right and safe ways to proof a program. "If I code it right, then it's right. What could go wrong?"

C. Somebody spent too much time learning the meanings of all those parameters in a pocket milling cycle, and not enough time learning that

8,000 SFM and 3.5 IPR feeds don't work real well in pre-hardened 4140.

D. Somebody who knew how to enter an offset had no idea what an offset actually is, how it works, or why.

Managers, and especially human resources folks, have all had too many bad experiences with people with this kind of "knowledge", and believe enough of the lies and excuses to try to deal with them. So they look for people who know what the last idiot claimed was his biggest problem, even though that person really was an idiot.

Think about hiring a carpenter based on whether he was experienced with a Stanley hammer, as opposed to a Craftsman, without regard for whether he know how to work with wood.

It's self defeating, and far, FAR too common.

KG

A better example is someone who can only use AutoCRAP and who then complains about "dumbing down or our entire culture."

Posters like this one don't have clue one about how valuable having a Haas control is for quickly and effectively dealing with the kinds of problems that often come up in a machining job shop. All they know is Fanuc or Mitsubishi and think this kind of control is adequate. Usually people like this have had their own business and failed because they really have no clue what the market really needs.

"A competitive world offers two possibilities:

You can lose. Or if you want to win you can change.=94 =85 Lester Thurow US economics professor.

That means moving forward from AutoCRAP and Fanuc. Posters like this one fight change at every step.

Yup. That's exactly what it is if you use AutoCRAP, Fanuc, Mastercam, etc. and don't think there is a better way

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

I guess it's needed when it's attached to a POS machine.

It was you Jon who recently was complaining about your Haas wasn't it? You know your multiple rants in here and in your blob.

-- Tom

This is an excellent question. We rarely have to edit at the machine or anywhere else. Post & go

So you're not CNC programmers, you're CAM operators.

HTH

Really. Are you probing castings? What happens when when the machinists running your machines (or do you have button pushing idiots because like Joe788 or Tom Brewer you're afraid of employing anyone who can think and program) hit hard spots in the material and the program needs to be adjusted?

You say you do aerospace work so if you're serious about aerospace I'd think you would be doing plenty of castings.

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA jonbanquer.blogspot.com/

Yep. But even if I weren't why would that have anything to do with editing the program at the control? Are YOU probing castings?

Number one, why would you "adjust the program" because you had one casting with a hard spot? Number two, Mazatrol Tool Data does a terrific job of slowing down the feedrate, or even stopping altogether if something goes wrong (before the tool is munched).

I know people who are responsible for hundreds of "aerospace" part numbers, NONE of them being castings.

Why aren't you over at emastercam, flooding the forum with your beginner questions, "bill"?

If you were choosing a machine/control, where would "ease of program editing" fall into your list of priorities?

What does probing have to do with editing at the control?

Most overused excuse by programmer who can't/won't admit to making a mistake.....LOL........you use this a lot do ya Jon?

25 years in Aerospace machining castings, forgings, etc. and have yet to experience as many problems or machining issues over that span as you seem to have in a month Jon.

-- Tom

I wonder why Jon doesn't want to answer such simple questions?

Really. Are you probing castings? What happens when when the machinists running your machines (or do you have button pushing idiots because like Joe788 or Tom Brewer you're afraid of employing anyone who can think and program) hit hard spots in the material and the program needs to be adjusted?

You say you do aerospace work so if you're serious about aerospace I'd think you would be doing plenty of castings.

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA jonbanquer.blogspot.com/