Need Machine info - 5 axis mills

To all, I need some suggestions from the vast experience available here.
We are in need of (3) 5-axis mills. These will all be bought from the
same MTB. The machines we are currently looking at are Hermle, Mikron, Mazak Variaxis, and a Mori. These are used to do extensive relatively deep milling (up to 5x deep) in hypereutectic aluminum. We need HSM capabilities and high speed spindles and rigidity. We need the capability to have hydraulics at the table for clamping. These will be round parts, held in a chuck or other fixture mounted to the table, but the work envelope needs to be large enough to allow robotic loading. Speaking of which, the MTB needs to fully support and provide whatever needs to be done to integrate robotic loading to our specifications. Heidenhann or Siemens 840D controls will be required. I would like to have some recommendations from the group regarding the above machines, or if you have a 5 axis machine you are familiar with that is a good, solid machine but not listed above, please let me know.
Thanks in advance.
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Anthony

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Anthony wrote:

Knowing a little, very little really, about what you might want to produce in general, I could recomend something not on your list that would out produce any of the listed MTB's. I'd prefer not to do so publicly. Send me an email and I'll make a recomendation. The equipment is known throughout the world as premium stuff and robotics integration was designed in when the spec. was written.
It's twelve axis though and if you really are stuck on 5 I guess you wouldn't be interested. Let me know. You can call my cell if you like.
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John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
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Feh! Post the link to the video.
That thing is friggen nuts.
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Dan

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Anthony wrote:

Anthony, have you looked into the Makino A66E-5XD? It's pretty quick in not only XYZ (3000ipm), but also 75rpm on the B axis and 150rpm on the A axis.
It may also be worth considering an HMC with a 100rpm B axis, like the Mori NH4000DCG or NH5000DCG and adding a very fast aftermarket multi-platter 5th axis. Not sure how well a bolt-on 5th integrates with hydraulics though.
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No, but I'll add that to the list.

No room for HMC, and adding the 5th would be an issue, most likely. We already have 6 5-axis VMC's in this cell, and have the process, fixturing and tooling proven in this application, we just need a good machine to bolt more too.
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Anthony

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Anthony wrote: These are used to do extensive relatively

Sounds like Piston Manufacture to me ;-) We do a few, but not production. Standard VMC's suit fine. Your application may be different.
Wayne...
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wrote:

Have you written something like this off because of service? Or price?
http://www.dmgamerica.com/us,milling,dmu100pduoblock?opendocument
We don't do 5 axis stuff, just noting that DMG sells about 15 different solutions to 5 axis work, then there's the whole line that use a lathe spindle as one of the rotary axes, and a B axis milling head, and can be bar fed. I'm sure you're already well aware, you've mentioned your trials and tribulations with DMG.
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wrote:

Mori has some very new, very cool machines that are the lathe type B axis milling head with large tool changer, CAT40 high rpm spindle, etc. I don't mean to be nosy, but if this is a production piston manufacture like somebody mentioned, I would think a machine with turning capability and being bar-fed would be pretty cool. Don't mean to intrude though.
We've been doing 90% milling on a live tool DMG lathe just for the purpose of being bar-fed for quite some time now. It does have lots of advantages.
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Service, mostly. We are still looking at them, but they have more than pissed in our cheerio's.

We already have that type of machine in use (Integrex). For this application, those type of machines just don't work very well. You really need a 5-axis mill. Bar-feeding is not even applicable.

We have some live-tool DMG lathe equipment in use. Won't do this job though.
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Anthony

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Anthony,
Can you give me a ball park on RPM and horsepower?
Also do you need full five axis, or will five face (Indexing on the rotary axes) do it for you? If five face is OK what would be the minimum index increment? 1 degree, 5 degree .001 degree?
Can you approximate a work envelope size?
Are you looking for HSK, CAT, or BT? What taper?
Have you considered a universal head type mill or does it need to be a trunion type?
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Dan

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Probably a min of 40 horse, 15k + rpm (It's aluminum, the more the better.)

There are several 3D contouring applications, true 5 axis is needed.

Probably in the neighborhood of 500 in Z, the fixture is rather tall (300mm or so) 600,400 in x/y The spindle has to be able to park out of the way of the robot during part exchange. I need a min of 350 mm clear above and around the fixture at the center of the table at part exchange. It definately needs a clear path to the center of the table from outside the machine for robot access. Secondary auto doors for robot access are probably the best way to go.

Current tooling is CAT40

Haven't really weighed the differences.
Please note that these are ballpark numbers.
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Anthony

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Anthony wrote:

A trunion machine will facilitate loading. You can rotate the primary -90 and load and unload from the -X side of the machine.
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John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
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Where (which state in the USA) will the machines be located?
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Steven Haerr
CNCTRADER CORPORATION
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Tennessee
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Anthony

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Anthony wrote:

Mazak is next door in Kentucky. I was just looking at their options list for the Variaxis. They have a pallet system where the pallet leaves the machine and moves to a loading station which can be robotic. Other parts can be machined on seperate pallets while the first pallet is reloaded. The pallets can be shared by up to 8 machines.
Fred
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Ya, we already have a couple hundred or so Mazak's. I can drive to thier facility blindfolded. We are looking at the variaxis. The stickler right now is the hydraulics.
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Anthony

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Anthony wrote:

I just finished a hydraulic clamping project on a 3ax vmc (Haas vs-3). I used a machine that the sheetmetal enclosure moves with the X axis the head moves Y which allows loading off center . This also enabled mounting the pump on the outside of the machine and having it move with the table which removed the need for an acumulator or long floppy hoses. We did mount the powercord to it from a retractable reel to keep the slack.
How about modifing the enclosure (on whatever machine you find) to have the doors centered to the safe loading position? Your going to need motorized doors regardess so what's a little more engineering...
For wiring, if the system is complex (as mine was) use an external plc wired to some aux ports.
-- Bill
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