Re: A Very Light Car

On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 18:31:42 -0400, Ed Huntress


The curb is more like 4000. It puts the 40 mph ICE only of the Volt in perspective.

Yup, and the regen of the hybrids take a lot of the sting out of accelerating the weight.
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On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 15:58:34 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Jon, when you pile up some automotive design engineering experience, you'll have something of your own to talk about. In the meantime, trying to second-guess and criticize the engineering behind the Volt is an exercise in foolishness.
There's more to it than building some one-off that you can show off to the press. There are a lot of one-offs and prototypes out there that looked good at first glance. Then you look at the manufacturing that would be required to make something like them in production, even in modest quantities, and you realize that most of them don't have a chance.
Hope springs eternal, however, and most of them keep going until, like Aptera, they go Chapter 7. So now the Chinese may take another stab at it.
Good luck. Car production in composites is an iffy proposition. Bodies are one thing; structure is another. As I said, a production, all-the-same IndyCar is $385,000 for a rolling chassis. It isn't because there's so much composite material in it. It's because the entire process is expensive and slow. These aren't fiberglass fishing boats.
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On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 16:37:02 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

That makes a good press release. What do you do when the $5 million runs out?

They built one or two, right? Yahoo.

I know about the Volt, Jon.
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On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 17:22:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Never. But $5 million prizes don't build car companies. First, you need customers.
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When your ideas win 5 million dollars please let this group know, Ed.
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On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 18:04:44 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Banquer

I'm not trying for that, Jon. I'm happy with what I'm doing. Prize money is not a part of it.
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Good, now all you have to do is stop suggesting what I do with my life or that the Chevy Volt represents something great... it doesn't.
On the other hand, the Edison II does represent greatness and it's been rewarded for its greatness.
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On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 18:23:13 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Banquer

Hey, I thought you were identifying a great marketing opportunity. If it's so hot, why not jump on it?

It probably will be more important to the future of automobiles than any of those little crickets.

Yup. They got their 15 minutes of fame, and enough money to really whoop it up for a big time in Lynchburg.
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"Hey, I thought you were identifying a great marketing opportunity. If it's so hot, why not jump on it?"
You thought wrong.
"Yup. They got their 15 minutes of fame, and enough money to really whoop it up for a big time in Lynchburg."
It's more money than you or I will even win for our ideas. I'm not jealous but you appear to be.
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On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 18:45:57 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Banquer

Don't be ridiculous, Jon. $5 million won't get you going in car manufacturing. Aptera burned through $25 million and couldn't get past development stages.
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On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 14:28:00 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Well then what's the $5 million going to do for them? Why are you making a big deal out of it?
They won a prize. Very nice! Now, about actually building cars to sell...
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On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 15:31:14 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

When will we see if they can make anything that will sell?
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On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 21:32:15 -0400, Ed Huntress

Same reason Gunner doesn't.

Hopefully Bonkers got lunch out of it at least.
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wrote:

.
Don't need their lunch. I eat yours on a daily basis.
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On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:08:34 -0400, Ed Huntress

You still wasting your breath on "the Jon", Ed??? I only see his rants when you reply to them. He's a waste of bits.
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On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:38:48 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I don't do it on purpose. d8-)
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On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:34:37 -0400, "Existential Angst"

That's all you got, more made up nonsense. I got tired of convertibles about 2 decades ago. Wind in my hair? Gives me a headache, which is one of the reasons I wear a helmet when riding, whether legally required or not.

Why don't you explain exactly how to do that instead of making shit up? No, you can't use magic motors or redesign the market. Why don't you start by listing the weight reduction of eliminating computers and airbags. Let's see how close that number is to your target. I expect 20 pounds of computers, so you only have to find 1780 pounds of airbags at 5 pounds each. Maybe if you take the volume knob off the radio?

Do you know the meaning of the word contradiction? It can't be fundamentally good if it's double the correct weight and triple your price.
If you had a brain in your head then you'd instinctively know that the only way to get serious weight reduction and meet the same goals would be to use expensive materials, which would fuck up your idea of cutting the price by 2/3. And if any of your ideas were as easy as you say they are, then they'd have been implemented long ago.
I predict that you will NEVER put up an ounce of proof to support your rants, and neither will Bonkers. Well OK Bonkers will probably find some Popular Science covers and pretend the artwork makes his case. In fact I don't understand why he doesn't post a jpg of some money and pretend it's his paycheck.
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wrote:

Why don't you stop being a little bitch, and actually enumerate just WHERE the weights arise from? Then mebbe you can answer yer own Q. Oh, silly me.... but you DON'T know what the weight profile is..... OK, carry on, as usual.

Sure it can. Your brain is just too hormonally out of whack to grok the notion. Low-T AND high-E??
Oh, and you are a car engineer/designer, now? AND and astronaut?? AND a gourmet chef.... wow..... you must drink Dos Equis beer.... stay thirsty, my asshole friend....
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On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:58:10 -0400, "Existential Angst"

YOU have repeatedly claimed that a vehicle that cost a billion to develop by an army of engineers could have been designed at half the weight and one third the price by some quack on Usenet. As if GM for some strange reason forgot to try to make it light. It's YOUR job to make your case, so start quacking! Instead all we've seen is more made up shit and dodging and weaving. The single slightly feasible thing you've suggested is to leave out 30 pounds of rear seat airbags, which is a pathetically helpless demonstration of how little thought you gave to your 1800 pound number. Obviously you have NOTHING else to support your claims, exactly as I predicted. Oh wait, there's still the promised manifesto! Which I expect to see the day after Moller's skycar flies around the world nonstop.
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wrote:

You wouldn't understand it, anyway, cuz, well, deys numbers involved.... But it's coming, just got Haas problems, is all.
In fact, since YOU are so effing smart, YOU should outline the what-if strategy, for determining, when/where/if/how electrics are more user-economical than gas. Quite a few surprises, if you do it right. A big IF, in your case.
As far as GM goes, cuz GM made it 3800#, it MUST be 3800#, right???? Gee, I guess they didn't include Logic 101 in your GED/Astronaut curriculum, eh?
3800# for a compact *energy-saving GREEN car* is PRIMA FACIE ridiculous. Oh, sorry.... here we go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_facie
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