UG vs Mastercam



It all depends on where you are and your reseller. Around here,
Mill Entry = $3200 Mill 1 = $5000 Mill 2 = $9000 (worthless, only allows single surface machining with most 3D paths, and no "follow surface" gap setting) Mill 3 = $12000-$13000 depending on what day of the week it is. Solids = +$1000 Advanced Multi Axis = +$2,500
So you end up at about $16K for everything, + another $4K for Solidworks. Surprisingly, the maintenance for $16K worth of Mastercam ends up being about the same as the maintenance for the $4K seat of Solidworks!
The solids package is unnecessary, because you can still machine solids without it. I'm old school like BD though, and prefer wireframe and surfaces.
MC will do 5 axis positioning with any of the mill levels, but needs the add on for the fancy stuff. A very nice 5 axis post for a common machine like a Mazak Variaxis is $2500 from In House.
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On 2/20/2010 9:37 AM, Joe788 wrote:

So really - you've just bought a seat of full NX. Except you don't get assemblies which means you import each and every piece of geometry required into your part file. Case in point, when I was at Haas, my SL30 base program was 7mb's in NX, in mastercam it was 25mb! I was able to include all the tooling and fixtures so I could make nice setup sheets in NX without the overhead. If the design changed (which it did) I just replace the model make the minor changes and regen the toolpath.

Folks are "old school" because the system forces you to be. I did the same when I used MC after years of using only solids. Really hated to have countless layers of wireframe. Went right back to straight solids when I was back on NX.

-- Bill
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Exactly! The best might mean having to pretend the job requires skill and fair pay. 'lol
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On 2/20/2010 6:29 AM, Black Dragon wrote:

$15k For Mill3+solids. DAMN!
$5K for VX "end to end".
http://vxstore.vx.com/product/vx-end-to-end-6.cfm
I'll admit, the Cam may not be AS robust, or as easy to use in /some/ areas. But I'm not sure, since I haven't seen, nor used Mastercam in eons.
The Solids and surfacing are so far beyond that of Mastercam, it's not even a fair comparison, and for 1/3rd the cost of Mastercam.
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It's 10% Bill. So $16K for level 3 + solids, and your maintenance is $1,600 bucks.

Unless it's changed drastically in the last two years, NX's high speed machining paths are kinda crappy. I'm sure the complex 5 axis paths are the shit, but for regular 2.5D stuff, it's quite a bit behind Mastercam's Dynamic Milling
********* uhhhhh....???? I ran nx5. Maybe three or more years old. Let me tell ya, that friggen software made the sweetest 2d toolpaths Iv'e ever seen, and thats after 4 months on nightshift with UG, and mastercrap since version 4. I'm sorry to all the mastercam users, it's no contest, 2d or 3d whatsover. It simply shames mastercam. The reason is UG is actually...Unigraphics, Camax, Smartcam, and a few more.
MastercamX3 is pretty nice stuff, but it's still a cartoon.
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Vinny, X3 didn't have the Dynamic Mill function. It's amazingly good. It's not even in the same universe as trochoidal milling. You also had more formal UG training in your first week on the job, than you ever had with Mastercam.
And calling Mastercam a cartoon? Come on now, the graphics aren't good enough to be a cartoon!
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wrote in message

Vinny, X3 didn't have the Dynamic Mill function. It's amazingly good. It's not even in the same universe as trochoidal milling.
***** Ok, I'll back up then a bit and give mastercam x4 the benefit of the doubt. ****
You also had more formal UG training in your first week on the job, than you ever had with Mastercam.
****** a week on a UG tutorial doesn't compare with using mastercam for years in many shops with many people, along with three days in the begining on a tutorial with version 4 and many tutorials along the way, including one for x. I was on UG 3 months solid and one month off and on. Technically, I prolly bearly scratched the surface of UG...something I regret. ****
And calling Mastercam a cartoon? Come on now, the graphics aren't good enough to be a cartoon!
****** I will say this, my mastercam toolpaths are just as good as the cimitron toolpaths being ran in the machines around me. (for whatever reason, lol)
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Ouh oh, as good as Cimatron? Polly some(not many) even better. Every software has good ones & suck ones. That goes for programmers too. But........... how many hoops were "jumped thru" to get there? I am tired of jumping. Ok the code generated for the machine has lot-o- rapids, big deal. It aint crashing, or gouging or plowing into heavy stock? Its confidently hoping around doing its thing. Peace of mind. "push the button & go home" But then again I've seen shop owners watch toolpaths run with a stopwatch to time rapids, & say "see I'm loosing money" go figure. How many times you walk thru a shop & the spindles are not running? Thats were your loosing money. Anyone ever program or run a Roders? A freekin triumph of German engineering. -- \|||/ (o o) ______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________ ~ Gil ~ the self proclaimed IT13 king
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BillT wrote:

I see you've been to Mastercam Fanboi Central too. The In-House Solutions eMastercam Forum where individuals who don't jump on their bandwagons preferring instead to do their own thinking get Lynched by a mob. Makes the sad excuse for a place to get support place ridiculously easy to troll. Here on Usenet trolling successfully requires actual effort. <g> There are a few good people there, makes returning to the place every now and then worthwhile.
In the late 90's early 2K I was the IT goto person as well as a mold machinist and got first hand experience with UG's support when the company purchased a seat for tool design. That experience with UG's support was second to none. The people I worked with knew the system. They weren't reading from scripts, they weren't suggesting work arounds, they knew EXACTLY what the fuck they were doing.
--
Black Dragon

We gave you an atomic bomb, what do you want, mermaids?
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On 2/20/2010 7:49 AM, Black Dragon wrote:

When I was using MC (x2 I think) I was having crashing problems with the Operation Manager (what they call it in UG) when the number of ops got over 80 or so. No one would help me on that. It was quietly fixed a version later. I brought up the lack of multiple holder collision detection support (without going through some horrific workaround at the time). I had been using multiple defined holders for years in NX. That was a deal breaker yet no one thought it was important!

I feel a bit of accomplishment when an update comes out and my own PR number is listed as been fixed. I've not had any major issues in the last couple releases though. The other thing I like is when they do confirm the problem, they prioritize it given its severity. Not the usual, " that's the first we've heard of that"...
-- Bill
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Software is not much different than buying a car. You will pay as much or as little as you can haggel with the VAR. (value added reseller) key word: $added$ That being said, its all negotiable. When I buy a car I get the dealer invoice, ok here's X amount more for your profit/commission ect - deal? Hey whats this $400 cost? Ford advertising (commercials ect) that every new Ford has? BS! I'm driving around with your sticker on my trunk - its Free advertising for you? Needless to say I've got a few stickers on my mechanic box. They come off easy when their new. Good luck getting the invoice from a software reseller. Those guys are hungry & not much different than used car salesloosers.
--
=A9=BF=AE
~gil~



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Kinda of lame video, but ok for a 5min job. Most of the clueless here your referring too may not know much difference between the two. Maybe a few lines of text here pointing out the differences, of course just for those poor clueless haunting fools? 2-3 times cost? well ya that may be a bit exaggerated, but as BillT stated one will need a modeler like Solidworks to go with Mscam. So 2+X cost may not be that far off as I've said in my previous bald faced lie. Geeze I thought it was called X4 because its 4 times the cost of Bobscam & 4 times as cumbersome/ slower/inefficient as UG? <g>
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal" "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."
My Toyota is floored & the brakes don't seem to be working. Houston We Have a Problem!
Weew........ I gotta have a beer.
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/Holdzem_MGD.JPG
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/MVC-221F.JPG
-- \|||/ (o o) ______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________ ~ Gil ~ the HOLDZEM king on E-bay
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Batman wrote:

It's not a forum, it's a Usenet newsgroup. And us (tinu) fools who haunt this newsgroup recognize a shill when we (tinw) see one.
Feel free to not let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
And by the way, Mastercam can smoke that NX toolpath with HST in X4.
--
Black Dragon

Love is in the offing. Be affectionate to one who adores you.
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So you made that video huh? Tell me, what cutting processor did you use on UG and on mastercam? What cutting routines? Since you made the video, feel free to be specific.
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At the time it was also not unusual to be running Windows 98. Now if we look at the current version of Masterscam, your video is a joke.....or your programming is.
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When did you make the video, and what version of Mastercam were you using?
I'll stand by my earlier statement:
The Mastercam user in that video is either completely clueless (Read: Banquer level cluelessness), or was intentionally tanking the test.
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Even funnier is this OneCNC video posted two days after yours, demonstrating a SIGNIFICANTLY better toolpath than you did in UG.
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Joe788 wrote:

Can't be possible surely ;)
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On 2/19/2010 2:25 PM, Wayne Weedon wrote:

Put me in a Ferrari and I'll probably still drive it just like my Subaru. I'm no race driver! <g>
One of the problems with this trade (and many others I'm sure) is you can be shown where all the fancy buttons and mouse clicks are but... you still need to know what you want to achieve. Crap in... crap out.
-- Bill
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Whens Two or ThreeCNC coming out?<g> most need more than One? (design/ draft/program)

Oh ya, anything is possible with the "right" smoke & mirror.

Ya but when your on the Autobahn, the road is open, I'd like to get there in 1/2 the time, instead of fighting surface street traffic. Both ways will get you there. I'll be at the pool sippin a cool one whilst the others will be pulling their hair out & will need a valluim or a xanax to calm their nerves.

PEBKAC?
-- \|||/ (o o) ______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________ ~ Gil ~ the self proclaimed IT13 king
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