I'm having some trouble understanding the BEST keyway system. (Site's
pretty much garbage, unfortunately.) Anyone more familiar with it than
I know that there's no single all-section master, but I also know that
there ARE several multi-section masters -- not sure if BEST produces
them or if they're exclusively third-party. That said, supposing I
wanted to enter the entire range of BEST keyways with the fewest
number of blanks. What would they be?
(If anyone's curious, I'm building a relatively comprehensive
collection of bump keys, so I'm obviously doing what I can to have the
least amount of metal jangling around in the toolbag.)
I don't know why someone would think that using "bump keys"
on a Best SFIC would do much of anything at all...
Unless the core in question was very old and worn, but then
again you would need a key that is cut very similar to the
keys in the keying system for them to be effective... As in
within one or two increments of any operating key bitting in
every pinning chamber at the same time... Or perhaps if
the core in question is extensively masterkeyed maybe the
use of "bump keys" would be successful... And that is
only with A2 system keys...
The difference between change keys can be as small as
a single 2 step in one pinning chamber...
Not to mention the fact that the so-called multi-section
blank that is available is VERY thin and wouldn't stand
up to much usage as a "bump key" before snapping...
~~ formerly a maintenance man, now a college student...
"Brandon Oto" wrote in message:
Well, I understand your point, but the fact remains that (whether by
alchemy or whatever) a number of people have reported excellent results
And I can always have spares; that's sine qua non for bump keys anyway.
You state that a number of people have reported this.
Are these people you know?
If it is-Ask them to show you.
Let me guess-someone on the internet?
Or some site wanting to sell you a set for $100?(Of course, they would
say they worked)
How can you say that this is fact?
But, anyway, the first thing you have to do is consider the possible
bittings-And that will be enormous.
Possibly into the millions.
7 pin-10 depths.. 10 million if nothing is ignored as non usable
you DO KNOW you are dealing with 3 shear lines possibilities
per lock..only 2 of which will open the lock (the third pulls the
core) and these are usually VERY tight tolerances.. so much so I
dont know of anyone that 'copies' a Best, but instead originates
one like it was new..
thats why the special picks are a bit difficult to get used to
with Best keyways
I've spoken to at least three people, including both locksmiths and
hobby lock tinkerers, who have bumped SFICs successfully, and a number
more over the internet. It's true that you're working with good
tolerances and two different (and mutually incompatible) shearlines,
but it's also true that it doesn't matter very much whether you open
operating or control -- if you end up pulling the core you can just
effect an opening by rotating the "fingers" with pliers or whatever.
Moreover, you'd be hard-pressed to find a BEST or other SFIC that isn't
mastered, so you're actually working with much better odds, and
remember that a good-quality lock with tight tolerances tends to help
with bumping, not contraindicate it.
Guys, this is thrilling <g>, but seriously, does anyone know the
multi-section masters? I can just get the entire range, but it'd be
nice not to have to.
The only thing I saw in Ilco was their FM, Stormin, and I was under the
impression that others existed.
core key.. master key and regular key..
you got 1 absolute to pull the plug, then 2 or combinations
thereof to turn it..
and IF its grand or more mastered, then there is still more
possibilities..(thank heaven for computer generating software)
most of the systems I have seen have 3 keys in them at a
core, regular, and master.
NO, you dont NEED a master.. it could be a 'common key' (KA) for
10 or 30 locks, for whatever reason, but the business uses I get
into, the district manager has the core and master key...and the
store manager has just the door key for that store only.
the local college has a 7 story building that has a janitors key
that ONLY opens his closet on each floor-plus the grand master,
and the floor master keyed into that lock
a individual room key, plus a core and floor master keyed in,
and a building master that opens all the locks in the entire
(PS, someone lost the building master- was a mess....)
You could check into some other companies, like Master, for one.
Master does make SFIC Keyways.
There is another one that makes them, but can't think of it now.
I do not duplicate BEST Keys-I always decode it and chop a new one.
I have a limited number of SFIC keyways-Don't believe I have a section
Personally, I would not go through that much trouble.I give myself
about 5 minutes picking time-then I drill.
And I will report to you that I have enough success picking them
open-(Not to the control-however)-that I don't feel the need for bump
And there are times when I can tell you that even a bump key will not
I had a BEST core that I decoded the control on-It would'nt even work.
Later inspection revealed one of the pins had sheared in the wrong
place-very thin (.020)
This pin rode around and blistered the outside of the control sleeve so
much that not even the right control key would turn it.I got the
control sleeve out with a punch and a BFH.
Falcon ? HATE Falcon..unless I gotta, any Falcon I find is
replaced and it thrown in the trash.
me too, and was in a big shop to my east and they wont copy
EITHER. decode and code machine cut
its fragile AND might not work on everything there is one listed
in ilco book..but I bet you are gonna buy a HUGE quanity to get
it.. 50 or 100
agree..OR remove the knob and take it with me-one of those 'spare
thats why the special turning tool, ONLY good for that..AFAIK
I think destroying the core would be more practical in alot of cases
Especially large facilities where people use keys forever thinking it
will cost them more.
I made myself a turning tool.
I tried it on the one that blistered-No luck
I can get cores for around 8.00
NOTHING but a rotary pick would work on that..
If I got to work on a lot, someone just lost a housing cause I
will get that core out in 1 piece..
did ThAT as well- building went through 3 owners and no one had
the key to the front door INSIDE, or the padlocks.. luckily the
core key worked all the locks.
Truth be told I'm a poor enough picker that I haven't even tried having
a go with an IC-modified wrench... just seems like a futile effort.
Starting to sound like I should contact BEST if I want to pursue
this... or just grab all of the major keyways... does anyone know
specifically which keyways the Ilco FM blank passes?