BETS keyways

I have no idea how I mistyped "BEST" in the topic. Don't ask.

I don't know why someone would think that using "bump keys" on a Best SFIC would do much of anything at all...

Unless the core in question was very old and worn, but then again you would need a key that is cut very similar to the keys in the keying system for them to be effective... As in within one or two increments of any operating key bitting in every pinning chamber at the same time... Or perhaps if the core in question is extensively masterkeyed maybe the use of "bump keys" would be successful... And that is only with A2 system keys...

The difference between change keys can be as small as a single 2 step in one pinning chamber...

Not to mention the fact that the so-called multi-section blank that is available is VERY thin and wouldn't stand up to much usage as a "bump key" before snapping...

Evan, ~~ formerly a maintenance man, now a college student...

IMO? a VERY special pick, made for the SFIC to pull the core-AND a LOT of practce.. some of the Best are factory ONLY, IIRR --Shiva--

Well, I understand your point, but the fact remains that (whether by alchemy or whatever) a number of people have reported excellent results bumping SFICs.

And I can always have spares; that's sine qua non for bump keys anyway.

then you can get to your local supplier and buy the. 10 or 15 different? public blanks available.. but it wont cover everything AFAIK..

--Shiva--

The best information I've found has been the Ilco 70 keyblank catalog.

You state that a number of people have reported this. Are these people you know? If it is-Ask them to show you. Let me guess-someone on the internet? Or some site wanting to sell you a set for $100?(Of course, they would say they worked) How can you say that this is fact?

But, anyway, the first thing you have to do is consider the possible bittings-And that will be enormous. Possibly into the millions.

LOL.. yeah.. 7 pin-10 depths.. 10 million if nothing is ignored as non usable

you DO KNOW you are dealing with 3 shear lines possibilities per lock..only 2 of which will open the lock (the third pulls the core) and these are usually VERY tight tolerances.. so much so I dont know of anyone that 'copies' a Best, but instead originates one like it was new.. thats why the special picks are a bit difficult to get used to with Best keyways --Shiva--

I've spoken to at least three people, including both locksmiths and hobby lock tinkerers, who have bumped SFICs successfully, and a number more over the internet. It's true that you're working with good tolerances and two different (and mutually incompatible) shearlines, but it's also true that it doesn't matter very much whether you open operating or control -- if you end up pulling the core you can just effect an opening by rotating the "fingers" with pliers or whatever. Moreover, you'd be hard-pressed to find a BEST or other SFIC that isn't mastered, so you're actually working with much better odds, and remember that a good-quality lock with tight tolerances tends to help with bumping, not contraindicate it.

Guys, this is thrilling <g>, but seriously, does anyone know the multi-section masters? I can just get the entire range, but it'd be nice not to have to.

The only thing I saw in Ilco was their FM, Stormin, and I was under the impression that others existed.

- Brandon

Why not just mill some blanks down to the masters shape? For just a few bumpkeys for myself this would be the way I'd do it.

Dear Shiva, How do you arrive at three? I thought two?

Very possible. But I don't know of any more. Please let us know what you find.

core key.. master key and regular key.. you got 1 absolute to pull the plug, then 2 or combinations thereof to turn it.. and IF its grand or more mastered, then there is still more possibilities..(thank heaven for computer generating software)

most of the systems I have seen have 3 keys in them at a minimum.. core, regular, and master. NO, you dont NEED a master.. it could be a 'common key' (KA) for

10 or 30 locks, for whatever reason, but the business uses I get into, the district manager has the core and master key...and the store manager has just the door key for that store only. the local college has a 7 story building that has a janitors key that ONLY opens his closet on each floor-plus the grand master, and the floor master keyed into that lock a individual room key, plus a core and floor master keyed in, and a building master that opens all the locks in the entire structure. (PS, someone lost the building master- was a mess....) --Shiva--

lots more exist if I understand right, BUT, you cannot get them as they are restricted sorta to direct end user.. --Shiva--

Brandon, You could check into some other companies, like Master, for one. Master does make SFIC Keyways. There is another one that makes them, but can't think of it now.

I do not duplicate BEST Keys-I always decode it and chop a new one. I have a limited number of SFIC keyways-Don't believe I have a section master.

Personally, I would not go through that much trouble.I give myself about 5 minutes picking time-then I drill. And I will report to you that I have enough success picking them open-(Not to the control-however)-that I don't feel the need for bump keys. And there are times when I can tell you that even a bump key will not work. I had a BEST core that I decoded the control on-It would'nt even work. Later inspection revealed one of the pins had sheared in the wrong place-very thin (.020) This pin rode around and blistered the outside of the control sleeve so much that not even the right control key would turn it.I got the control sleeve out with a punch and a BFH.

good luck, goma.

Falcon ? HATE Falcon..unless I gotta, any Falcon I find is replaced and it thrown in the trash.

me too, and was in a big shop to my east and they wont copy EITHER. decode and code machine cut

its fragile AND might not work on everything there is one listed in ilco book..but I bet you are gonna buy a HUGE quanity to get it.. 50 or 100

agree..OR remove the knob and take it with me-one of those 'spare moment' projects

thats why the special turning tool, ONLY good for that..AFAIK

--Shiva--

I think destroying the core would be more practical in alot of cases here. Especially large facilities where people use keys forever thinking it will cost them more. I made myself a turning tool. I tried it on the one that blistered-No luck .

I can get cores for around 8.00

just thoughts. later, goma.

NOTHING but a rotary pick would work on that..

If I got to work on a lot, someone just lost a housing cause I will get that core out in 1 piece.. did ThAT as well- building went through 3 owners and no one had the key to the front door INSIDE, or the padlocks.. luckily the core key worked all the locks.

--Shiva--

Truth be told I'm a poor enough picker that I haven't even tried having a go with an IC-modified wrench... just seems like a futile effort.

Starting to sound like I should contact BEST if I want to pursue this... or just grab all of the major keyways... does anyone know specifically which keyways the Ilco FM blank passes?

- Brandon