Car Tools

GOOGLE.... search this group for car opening tool sets or something along that line., have fun

--Shiva--

Those are good recomendations. The manual is as if not mroe important than the tools. Get an air wedge too if you don't have one.

If you have an up-to-date opening manual(35-45$),You might just look at how the tools are used and see if you could substitute one the older tools that you already have, or maybe buy some 3/16 weld rod(1.50-2.00$-24")and try making your own version of the tool. I've made many of my own slide lock tools and vertical rod lifters.

goma.

Well, the tow truck guy - the anethama - The Hated One - is still lurking. Learning to start junk cars, by hook or crook. lol.

You need a product called the AirWedge, and a product called the Big Easy. Slide the inflatable bag into the door jam until you can see it inside the car. Pump it up, forcing the door away from the jamb. Insert the Big Easy, and manipulate the window roll-down, the lock button, the emergency brake, or the radio. lol.

Total time invested: 85% in less that 60 seconds. None in excess of 3 minutes, with the exception of trucks, which require standing on a running board which never seems to be in the right place.

Total money invested: maybe 80 bucks. Buy it cheap on the web for 50, or flag down the Snap-On step van, and buy it from him.

I dont use all those squigglies. Waste of time and money.

But, it will not work, BTW, on trucks with thick doors, since the air wedge cannot inflate enough to create a gap for the Big Easy. So I jim the trucks.

Otherwise, 100% success rate. No damage. Ever. Never heard of damage, either.

Now I know yall are clique-ish and defensive here, and I have no wish to hear it all again. (Not that *that* will stop some of you. lol) But for those who have ears, you are missing the boat without this stuff. Forget that "Be-Professional-and-Work-Through-The-Lock" crap. I say, be profitable and work through a 1/4" gap in the door.

OK. I'm done now. G'head and tell me what scum tow truck drivers are. lol.

Better be carefull Marty. Some of the German cars have sensors that can be knocked out of calibration after wedging open the door causing the window to no longer roll back up. Cost to repair the damage on a new 500 SEL can cost mega bucks!!!

BTW, I hate that Z-Tool manual, what a joke. It's weird, they make the best tools in my opinion but the manual sucks. I use Steve Youngs' manual. I think High Tech is good. HPC has good manuals but they cost too much and take up too much space.

just look

one the

weld

tool.

lifters.

correct. we sub different tools all the time. (whatever will reach and manipulate the target). long as one knows exactly where the target is that their looking for.

g'day

hobby shop... model section that has the steel ROD... small diameter tool steel.. better than welding rod. WILL take a torch to heat to bend, BUT, it stays bent..

--Shiva--

was in a glass shop last week.. he had BOTH doors open and stripped in a Buick... the glass would NOT roll up OR down...

SOMETHING got damaged SOMEWHERE in th doors, but he was having no luck finding it... but, both doors had the exact same problem...

PS the 2 tow truck drivers here in town bought High Tech tool sets, AND have that air wedge assembly as an addition.. SOME cars require it, yes... but using it for 100%... ehh...

--Shiva--

Hi group:

This is an area where you should only worry about what is out there now -- cars coming soon will all be networked to the 'central hive' people who get locked out will simply be able to call in with their ID code and have the doors remotely unlocked...

Think I am way off base ??? On-Star is an option now on over 50 models of GM's production line -- but it is STANDARD EQUIPMENT on many of the higher end models...

This kind of system will become the norm sooner than later... Imagine the implications -- no car owner will ever have to worry about becoming locked out of their car again... The 'monitors' can notify authorities in the event of a car crash... Stolen cars can be located easily...

The downside -- the art of car opening by locksmiths and tow companies becomes obsolete... It is sad but I see the future trends heading in that direction...

As the locks used on cars become higher security (the keys that are side-milled) it becomes more difficult to manipulate them -- well all the car manufacturers have to do is make the door locks completely electronic... If all thats in the door is a sealed case with wires coming out of the bottom then it will be tough to prod around with a bent rod and open it... As for using an air bag and reaching tools all that has to be designed is that the 'electronic' controls for the door lock not operate after the car is left after a while or when the alarm system is armed...

Now I know that I have no experience in this area but I am saying the above because while opening cars will continue to be useful for older cars the newer ones will shortly become 'portable fortresses'...

Evan the maintenance man

Many people will likely not use the subscription service when those cars hit the used market. It's a questionable value on a new car. Irnoically it's probably a better idea on a used car with upwards of 100K on it but many people still are not going to pay for it. And if you lose you keys it doesn't replace them.

See above.

Opening is not the primary revenue generator of most locksmiths. When it comes to autos originating keys is more profitable.

This would be great for potentially trapping people in the car and generating lawsuits. Besides the primary goal of auto security system designers is to prevent outright theft, not entry. Transponder systems have been quite successful at doing this. There is little reason to go to elaborate measures to prevent entry on something with glass as the primary material for at least 50% of the passenger compartment. On the contrary it is in everyones best interest if there is a damage free method available to effect entry.

If you look at fortresses you will notice they all have something in common. Little to no accessable GLASS.

"Putyourspamhere" wrote in a message:

" -- Many people will likely not use the subscription service when those cars hit the used market. It's a questionable value on a new car. Irnoically it's probably a better idea on a used car with upwards of 100K on it but many people still are not going to pay for it. And if you lose you keys it doesn't replace them."

Umm... As long as the technology can be used to summon emergency help i.e. pressing that blue "On-Star" button or whatever it may be top indicate an emergency -- it is required to be monitored under FCC rules... Just like you can buy a cellphone but not activate a service plan and still be able to dial 911 on it... That service availiblity is why everyone in the country pays a 911 tax on their phone bill... Even though it is usually a forgotten line item somewhere near 'touch-tone service' on the bill...

As far as people not using the service in the 'used car' market I don't think so -- not when people can get an insurance rebate for having that vehicle locator ability and being able to have someone monitoring them to call help in the event the vehicles crash sensors activate... At that point the possiblity of remotely opening the doors or trunk in the event the keys are ever locked inside becomes a bonus...

I agree that being able to open a car remotely does not replace a lost set of keys... But how often are you called out to a car on an emergency basis for someone who has lost their car keys -- isn't it more along the lines of: "I was stupid I locked my keys in the car..." I remember back to my mall security days (not that long ago) and 90% of the auto lockouts were people who dropped their keys in the trunk while putting away bags or that 'accidentally' left their keys in the ignition when they left to go into the mall... I will agree that this is not the case everywhere but I will say that it is the more likely scenario... Only a fool would only have one set of keys -- people who loose them altogether would probably find another means of getting home and come back to get their car with the 'spare keys'...

"Putyourspamhere" wrote in a message:

" -- If you look at fortresses you will notice they all have something in common. Little to no accessable GLASS."

I agree that glass windows in doors are weak points...

However when a car is reported stolen very soon after it is taken when a car is spotted with a missing window (or in the cold or rain a window that appears to be open) it is considered suspect by the police... Breaking the car window is a technique employed by the thiefs who are looking to steal parts that can be easily removed and or valuables left in plain sight... The people who take the entire car away either specialize in stealing cars of a certain make and model or take cars with a tow truck -- how often does anyone pay attention to someone towing a car away ??? I once caught a person doing just that who didn't have the owners name or even someone present at the car -- it was management policy to log every car that gets towed... Well when I confronted this gentleman who was about half way done hooking up the car he was trying to steal to his tow truck he bolted... It opened the eyes of everyone in the area as to how so many vehicles were being taken with hardly anyone noticing...

"Putyourspamhere" wrote in a message:

" -- Opening is not the primary revenue generator of most locksmiths. When it comes to autos originating keys is more profitable."

So you can originate side milled security auto keys with transponders in the field now ??? I would like to see that... Even at night and on the weekends ??? Isn't that were many foreign cars are at these days as far as keys ??? I don't think it will be long before the american car makers catch up to that standard -- because that technology that you professional locksmiths use to figure out the transponder codes or to program a new transponder into the car's computer will eventually become a tool that the professional auto thieves will use as well...

Evan the maintenance man

---snip---

it won't happen as soon as you think.

Evan wrote: <snip>

Emergency doesn't play into it here. Believe it or not many of us don't depend on keys locked in the vehicle at the mall for our livelihood. 5 years ago when I was doing that kind of work I think about 30% of the automotive calls were to make new keys and I didn't mess with the used car lots either, where most of the work is to fit new keys.

There are an awful lot of fools out there.

Locksmiths have been doing both things for some years now.

In some cases yes.

You are behind here, the American manufacturers have had chips in their keys for a few years now as well. BBE.

-snip-

Virtually all high end models and a large number of midrange. Evan posts w/o availing himself of what is common knowledge.

"Billy B. Edwards Jr." wrote in a message:

" -- You are behind here, the American manufacturers have had chips in their keys for a few years now as well. BBE."

God -- Putyourspamhere -- You are so myopic with your vision -- you only read the one or two lines of my message that you KNOW you can exploit with your 'knowledge'... So I don't know all there is to know about cars... I have known about TRANSPONDER KEYS for a long long long time... And in the beginning of their introduction to the market only the dealerships could duplicate them...

Did you even read what I wrote in my message or did you just skip right to the one part where you could pick at me not knowing everything ???

"Putyourspamhere" wrote in a message:

" -- Opening is not the primary revenue generator of most locksmiths. When it comes to autos originating keys is more profitable."

And then I responded with:

" -- So you can originate side milled security auto keys with transponders in the field now ??? I would like to see that... Even at night and on the weekends ??? Isn't that were many foreign cars are at these days as far as keys ??? I don't think it will be long before the american car makers catch up to that standard -- because that technology that you professional locksmiths use to figure out the transponder codes or to program a new transponder into the car's computer will eventually become a tool that the professional auto thieves will use as well..."

So you can out of a mobile set-up produce a key (from nothing) for ANY model car or truck with a transponder ignition security system and high security side-milled keys ??? For every make and model ??? No Exceptions ??? No one ever answered that question...

I would LOVE to see such equipment as not even many LOCKSMITHS in my area (and over the period of time I have been working I have dealt with a lot of them) who have established businesses with a shop location purchase such expensive equipment...

Now to my point of: "portable reprogramming of the car to accept new transponder keys" Eventually someone will design in a way so that this will not be possible... Otherwise all a thief has to do is invest some time and energy in purchasing the same equipment that all of you do and they will be able to have that same capability...

And I have met a car radio installer who also puts in those 'remote starter systems' in cars and he knows how to by-pass the transponder system that Ford uses these days -- it has to be by-passed because otherwise the remote starter won't work without a key being in the ignition so the fuel pump will provide gas to the engine...

I am tired of the way you constantly mess with me... I am not a full-time locksmith and I don't know everything there is to know -- just like all the rest of you out there... If you say that you know everything that there is to know about locksmithing with any kind of seriousness then you have a problem... One that won't be fixed at this point... And again -- please do not tell me what I do not know simply because I didn't regurgitate every type of auto security key (transponders included) like an encyclopedia volume on locks and locksmithing for you to ponder... Like others here have said some of the security in the way that locks and other secuirty devices work is the fact that DETAILED knowledge of the why and how it works is not public...

I will quote the last two rules in the ALOA's Code of Ethics:

" -- To cooperate in advancing the best interest of the locksmithing industry by interchange of general information and experience with fellow locksmiths.

To encourage and promote loyalty to the profession, always ready to apply their special knowledge, skill and training for the use and betterment of our industry"

Well as someone who is interested in locksmithing and who has been told by BBE himself that I have a "better than average understanding of master-keying systems" I do not feel as if many of you here really take to heart those last two ethical standards... As someone who is seriously considering some kind of formal locksmithing education (I happen to live near one of the few trade schools on the entire East Coast that offers a formal locksmithing program) I do not feel that you have "encouraged nor promoted" my interest in the locksmithing trade... Your industry will die off if you don't treat people such as myself with some kind of better regard -- the 'betterment' of YOUR trade depends on it continuing into the future... For that to happen people must have an interest in becoming a serious, honest, educated, productive, and working member of the trade...

I know that MANY of you out there have written me off as some kind of nit-wit but that is your loss... I can't tell you who or what to be -- just like you can't tell me who or what I should be... But you are not really making my interest in the locksmithing profession seem worthwhile if all you really are is a bunch of obsessive-compulsive jerks who really discourage people looking into some kind of education or apprenticeship... Not all of you here are like that, but many of you are, and you don't express the dignity nor the honor of your profession very well... Not at all... This is one of the biggest reasons why the apprenticing system will slowly fade into obscurity... The fact that some very intelligent and very curious individuals conitnually get SLAPPED in the face time after time while looking into what most consider a very presitigious and honorable profession...

You may be locksmiths -- but you are on the internet here... If you don't like what the people who USE AND PAY for the internet to exist have to say then pack your shit up and only post your thoughts in the "Confidential or Trade Only" discussions on the websites where only registered trade professionals have access... The topic of this newsgroup may be alt.locksmithing but NO ONE here OWNS this group... Your individual ISP only filters out what many of its customers consider 'offensive'... If you don't like the people who read what you write and how they respond to it -- well you don't have to stick around and keep writing it... Just like you tell the people who have a problem with you to move on, nobody is forcing them to read it... I know that more of you will consider me an even bigger asshole after I have posted this but I don't care... Someone has to tell you guys to ease off... Now if any of you have any actual problems with what I have to say let's settle it privately via e-mail... The address in the header of all of my posts to this newsgroup will reach my e-mail inbox...

Evan the maintenance man

I don't deal very much with vehicles, so I can't answer 100% of your questions.

There are always exceptions. If I remember right Mercedes has quite a lock on their transponders. You can get the virgin key, but getting the vehicle to accept the new transponder is a wholly different matter.

Many times, NO equipment is involved except for the virgin transponder and the vehicle.

See above, re: Mercedes

Are you a locksmith? (and I don't mean do you DO locksmith related work; Are you a locksmith?) If not, this doesn't apply as you are not a "fellow locksmith".

To encourage and promote LOYALTY to the profession, not to encourage and promote the profession itself to others/outsiders/non-locksmiths.

The locksmith trade will never die. It is older than most other trades still going today. The only way it could die is if Jesus (or insert your belief-related peace deliverer here) returned and all evil was wiped from the planet. Otherwise, you're going to want locks on your doors!

That isn't our job. We aren't recruiters.

You use it, but you don't pay for it to exist... You pay for access TO it.

The Internet was built by the US Govt (when it was ARPAnet developed at MIT Lincoln Lab) and then added to by several educational bodies (the first four nodes were UCLA, Stanford Research Insitute, UC Santa Barbara, and University of Utah) and various scientific research entities (NSFNET, founded by the National Science Foundation, for instance). Later came hooks from around the globe (first was London) making it what it is today. [USENET was born in 1979.]

It was born before end "home" users connected to it. It grew before end "home" users connected to it. ...and it will continue to grow with or without end "home" users connected to it.

The only thing YOU, as an end "home" user (consumer), really PAY FOR is the WWW which is only a very small portion of "The Internet" and isn't required for it to continue to exist.

Not to bust your chops... Just setting it straight.

So umm why is it that your e-mail address in your posted message headers doesn't work ???

Why don't you e-mail me and I can send you the thoughts I have typed up for you...

I don't need people to 'set me straight'... Because you aren't actually doing that... You are setting me to your version of 'straight' which is as tilted as you think my version is...

Evan the maintenance man