Car Tools

It does work... snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com

"Billy B. Edwards Jr." wrote in message:
" -- Many of us will not pop off the group to email for that defeats the purpose of the group. BBE."
Thats just crap and you know it... When someone sends you an e-mail it makes things real... Some troll on the group will post and go away... But when someone actually communicates privately and directly to you -- well thats not something you can write off or dismiss quite so easily...
" -- Terminology is an important thing in the locksmith industry. What your remote starter guy does is compromise the system, not bypass it. Anyone can tape a key inside the column and circumvent a transponder system. So far I don't think anyone has a way to bypass them."
Umm no... He by-passes it the way that Ford published it in their technical manuals -- using the same adapter for the wiring harnesses that Ford designed and uses... Anyone owning a Ford vehicle with a transponder security system that also has an after-market remote starter installed doesn't have a functional transponder security system anymore... 'Taping a key under the dash' is something that isn't done anymore since someone could stumble across the key and not have to work very hard to steal the car... Go talk to a Ford dealership -- they by-pass these systems... There is a way to do it but it is more involved than splicing a few wires...
You know I will say this once and for all -- just because these people here worship the ground you walk on because of you writing a book that has become a 'bible' to your fellow tradesmen doesn't mean that ANYONE outside of that little circle will bend down and bow to you... I have yet to read your work and my jury is still out on that one... So control your ego and get over it... Several rather enthusiastic 'supporters' of yours have e-mailed me telling me to just listen to you... Well if you had done that when you wrote your book and 'listened' to the masters of your day you wouldn't be the respected man you are today with the fame of establishing the new industry 'standard'...
Do you really want all of the trolls out there who read this newsgroup to attain the opinion that locksmiths are a bunch of arrogant self-centered hot-heads ??? If you don't you should look at how you respond to people in your posts... Because that is the impression you guys give off... Like a bunch of sharks fighting over a piece of meat...
Evan the maintenance man

I think when you bypass the Ford Transponder you need to tell the on board computer to go into 'limp mode' allowing for no electrical timing advance. This may or may not be true because I quit working on Fords before OBD2 transponders came out. Knowing the old EEC4 system they used before 96 this tends to make the most since. However there may be a mode you can put the computer into like you can do on some Chrysler products that ask you if you want the transponder to be recognized or if you want the system to be transponderless like on certain fleet vehicles allowing for multiple keys to operate the car.

transponders We have an ol'e boy here named Wayne with a 4/2 track code machine, not the sidewinder. This thing cost about 20 grand. Punch in the code and it cuts the key. He's got a built in modem on the thing from what I understand. Real classy machine. He can do transponders as well, 4 or 2 track. Weekends, nights, just more money for him. He's really good.
The one that taught me can do over 90% of the same.
There are locksmiths out there that can but they do make the big bucks.

How about if the computer at Onstar gets a virus, and sends unlocking signals all over the world -- then everyone's Onstar car could all get unlocked at the same moment and the bag snatchers would have a wonderful time.

Many people will likely not use the subscription service when those cars hit the used market. It's a questionable value on a new car. Irnoically it's probably a better idea on a used car with upwards of 100K on it but many people still are not going to pay for it. And if you lose you keys it doesn't replace them. CY: I heard a radio commercial about ONstar a couple weeks ago. The subscriber had lost (her) key, and they sent someone out to deliver another key. I think they got that covered. Doesn't that make you feel better? To know that some one out there is driving around with a key to your car, and due to GPS they know exactly where your car is?
See above. CY: I read an article that said that someone figured out how to use the dash mounted microphone to monitor what they were saying in the car. FBI wanted that to track crime suspects.
Opening is not the primary revenue generator of most locksmiths. When it comes to autos originating keys is more profitable. CY: And Onstar endangers that, too.
electronic... This would be great for potentially trapping people in the car and generating lawsuits. Besides the primary goal of auto security system designers is to prevent outright theft, not entry. Transponder systems have been quite successful at doing this. There is little reason to go to elaborate measures to prevent entry on something with glass as the primary material for at least 50% of the passenger compartment. On the contrary it is in everyones best interest if there is a damage free method available to effect entry. CY: But do the designers know this?
If you look at fortresses you will notice they all have something in common. Little to no accessable GLASS. CY: At least not glass edges like the old rimless glass doors.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
" -- How about if the computer at Onstar gets a virus, and sends unlocking signals all over the world -- then everyone's Onstar car could all get unlocked at the same moment and the bag snatchers would have a wonderful time."
Fortunately someone thought of that... Like any other corporation whose business relies on DATA SECURITY they have a separate network for such ventures...
Evan the maintenance man

sends unlocking could all get have a wonderful corporation whose network for such can you quote proof of that ? no system is 100% secure..

Have always wondered about a OnStar disgruntled employee unlocking all the cars at once.

unlocking all the that same "disgruntled employee" can also let out some incriminating information on where that unit has been. next thing ya know PI's will figure out a way to use On-Star :-)
more big brothers watching !

"It's OK Hal. I can't let you do that Dave!"

So? "separate" networks can be attacked. Additionally what if an onstar employee decides to make a little extra money?

I'm sure they already have. Some Onstar employees likely have a nice second income.

They probably cut the key by code from the VIN only when needed, but this service is going to vary in availability based on how close an Onstar rep is to you, unless they subcontract it and then you are going to pay for it either directly or through higher subscription rates.
Not really.
Of course they do. The same way those that design safes know that it has to be possible to open the container if the lock fails or combo is lost.
I'm not really sure what you're getting at? The point is that it is pointless to try to make a vehicle impenatrable as long as it has easily broken glass as part of it's construction.

I would guess because he doesn't want spam and wants top keep his discussions on the NG.

Your entire argument here is irrelevant. emailing something in and of itself makes it no more valid than posting it here, probably less so since it isn't exposed to scrutiny from a large number of people.
You don't know the details. There are also aftermarket systems that "bypass" transponder systems. The catch? They require a working key to set up as do the systems you're talking about.
BBE has been posting to this group long before you and will be posting real world reliable factual information long after you have left. By contrast the more you post the more theoretical and in some cases imaginary your knowledge appears.
Why would anyone care what a troll thinks??

There are systems which essentially clone the transponder function into a permanently installed discreet component.These systems all require a working transponder key to set up though. It is probably technically possible to defeat a transponder system by tampering with i.e. reprogramming the systems firmware but this isalot more complicated than jumpering a few wires as has been suggested by a poster here.

"Putyourspamhere" wrote in message:
" -- Why would anyone care what a troll thinks??"
You should all care what novices think...
You were all novices once...
If BBE had kept his mouth shut and his mind turned off like most off you seem to like doing HE WOULD HAVE NEVER WRITTEN HIS BOOK... I heard it described as the 'industry' standard...
"Putyourspamhere" wrote in message:
" -- BBE has been posting to this group long before you and will be posting real world reliable factual information long after you have left. By contrast the more you post the more theoretical and in some cases imaginary your knowledge appears."
You know in some cases you are correct... But as far as BBE posting here longer than me -- check again... I am just guessing that I am only half his age if even that... So that one point is done with... Read what I wrote above...
You know I feel that I have to say this:
Maybe you need to reassess the way you comport yourself as a trade professional - I know that I am only being exposed to a small sample of the professionals out there but you people here from this newsgroup seem to be the most outspoken assholes in ANY TRADE that I have ever come across...
Evan the maintenance man

Evan,
I think you mis-read BBE's comment about taping the key. He didn't say "under the dash" he said "inside the column". That would be to fool the computer into thinking the correct value transponder was available. A key under the dash would just be for a spare as you stated.
Leon Rowell
Evan wrote: