Is this lock cylinder "possessed"?

I have a mortise lock and I just replaced it's dead bolt cylinder. I cannot find a perfect picture of it but it looks just like this:

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In the middle there is a screw. I inserted it through the door and the mortise, insert the screw from the edge, tighten it, and try my key...won't turn. Let me rephrase, it will turn about once every 100 times I tried.

I removed it and took it back to the locksmith who keyed it for me, and while he watched, I can insert my key and it turns every single time. I felt like an idiot.

I then went back home, reinstalled it, and inserted my key, won't turn.

I removed it again and no problem.

So it will only work when uninstalled. Once I installed it fails.

I then removed the middle screw, it works again. WHAT IS WRONG WiTH THIS???? Why is the middle screw when tightened make it difficult to turn the key?

I looked closely, and it seems when the screw is tightened, I cannot insert my key 100% into the cylinder. There may be about 0.5mm still protruding, causing the problem.

I tried NOT tightening the screw too much and it did not help. I am running out of ideas. Why would this screw make a difference anyways? Is it possessed?

MC

Reply to
miamicuse
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1 is this a NEW lock? 2 if not, has it been repinned?

if 1, take back to the dealer, - i SUSPECT it has been assembled wrong internally

if 2, take back to the locksmith/who ever repinned it, and have them disassemble it, and check if the parts between the key side and the thumb side are in proper alignment

3.. CAREFULLY stick it in a vice, and put a slight tension on it, hold it by the part that sticks down from the round part, AND only hold the end opposite the key.. insert the key and see if it binds up then.. --Shiva--
Reply to
--Shiva--

Yes it is a new cylinder to replace one I had originally.

I bought the cylinder from a locksmith and I gave him they key to set it to. That key opens all the doors in the house. Once he changed the pins he can lock and unlock the cylinder no problem. I can too. The problem only shows up when I insert it into the mortise and then tighten the middle screw.

I don't know who the dealer is. I got it from the locksmith.

I did, and he cannot duplicate the problem when it is disassembled. It only is a problem once installed. So his answer is "something is wrong with your door" and the cylinder works fine was you can see...which I cannot disagree...

Reply to
miamicuse

take it back to him.. have him put some side tension on it.. like the screw was installed.. and see while he is doing this if the key still works..

--Shiva--

Reply to
--Shiva--

I'm suspecting that you may be inserting the cylinder too far into the lock. Try only screwing it in only about 4 turns. See if that works.

Reply to
Jack

the link TO what it looks like was a profile type, not a mortice.. IF it IS indeed a mortice, then you either dont have it in far ENOUGH, OR TOO FAR.. either can happen.. as was suggested above.. it would ALSO be 'odd' IMO to have a mortice on a house door..means a very fancy type of outside handle..and NOT the normal door knob..

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it look sorta like that? IF SO, then the amount its screwed in IS critical.. cant be too little or too much

--Shiva--

Reply to
--Shiva--

I'm going to clean up that URL, so I can view it on my computer.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

It looks like you have a euro profile that centres itself in the door via the 5mm fixing bolt. If it is a twin cylinder (keyed on both sides) there is a shuttle piece that runs between the two cylinders which enagages the cam. The shuttle can move backwards and forwards only. There are a couple of posibilities but these are long shots: If a circlip has been put on 180 degrees out that could trap the shuttle but this would tend to manifest whether in the door or not.

The other, more likely explanation is that the cam is damaged or the talon/dummy lever inside the casing is damaged.

The $64 question is: does the key turn at all on both sides?

Regards

Reply to
lockman49

It looks like you have a euro profile that centres itself in the door via the 5mm fixing bolt. If it is a twin cylinder (keyed on both sides) there is a shuttle piece that runs between the two cylinders which enagages the cam. The shuttle can move backwards and forwards only. There are a couple of posibilities but these are long shots: If a circlip has been put on 180 degrees out that could trap the shuttle but this would tend to manifest whether in the door or not.

The other, more likely explanation is that the cam is damaged or the talon/dummy lever inside the casing is damaged.

The $64 question is: does the key turn at all on both sides?

Regards

Reply to
lockman49

Hi again,

There are a couple more possibilties: what is the make of the cylinder and what is the make of the lock casing. Although all euro cams are supposed to be exactly the same profile there can be differences and this might cause the problem. The other is if the hole through the door is not in line, when you tighten the fixing bolt it will put the cylinder under stress and this could cause binding. Using a measure, make sure the centres of the keyways are the same from the edge of the door on both sides of the door. Also ensure the cylinder is sitting at rightangles to both faces of the door. Lastly, if the lock casing cap has come loose that could cause this problem too.

Regards

Reply to
lockman49

Just a long shot here , but being that the lock is 'upside down" you may want to check and make sure the springs are not collapsed causing the key not to turn

Reply to
Keyman55

Thanks,

I am not sure of the make. The lock smith removed it from a box and there was no marking or brand name on it that I can see. However it does match the one I had in dimensions and finish.

It is a profile cylinder lock. One side of it is a turn knob and the other side is the key insert. This picture shows what the lock looks like from the inside. The left side shows the turn knob on the inside:

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When I took apart the mortise, this is what it looks like:

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The hole in the middle is where the cylinder lock for the dead bolt is inserted.

I tried to see if I can be too far in our too far out, but this is impossible, because the screw from the edge holds it in one position, so cannot be too far in or too far out.

As far as over tightening, I unscrewed it and screwed it back, I did not use any excessive force, using just normal pressure in screwing it in, no where did I have to turn hard or anything.

But when I insert the key it will not go all the way in, if I can go another 1mm, then it will work. If I slightly tap the key with a hammer and pound it in further, it will work. Otherwise, it continues to stick the key in 99%.

If I unscrew the lock, remove it, then my key goes in all the way 100% and I can turn it left or right all day long!

MC

lockman49 wrote:

Reply to
MiamiCuse

then, IMO the locksmith did not get everything assembled right when he rekeyed.. take the lock out of the door, insert the mounting screw into the edge where it goes and then try your key, see if it works then.. if not take it AS IS back to him, and have him fix the middle piece-its out of 'timing'

--Shiva--

Reply to
--Shiva--

It sounds like the locksmith sold you a 5 pin lock and you are using a 6 pin key. Choices ... cut the tip back a little at a time ,so it passes the screw but still works the other locks in your system. Or just buy a six pin lock.

Reply to
Keyman55

Why not file down the tip of the key that 1mm, so it can go all the way into the lock...

This is the kind of thing that happens with some locks when a handy type homeowner tries to save a bit of money by doing some of the work him/herself... The locksmith who provided a new cylinder for your door and installed it after rekeying would have been able to figure out exactly why your lock is not allowing the key to be fully inserted... Just because the cylinder "fits" into the lock doesn't mean it isn't defective in its machining -- that one screw that is holding the cylinder in the lock could be just slightly not in the right place [when the hole was drilled and tapped at the factory] to work on your particular lock...

What was the reason for needing to replace it with a new one anyway, couldn't your original cylinder be rekeyed, or did it wear out to a point it couldn't be reused ???

Evan, ~~ formerly a maintenance man, now a college student...

Reply to
Evan

Your putting it in 'back to front'. It's a 360 degree Euro cylinder (the cam turns 360) The cylinder will only turn if it's inserted into the lock the correct way around. Pull it out & turn it around. Don't over tighten the set screw as it will bow the cylinder body.

Reply to
Steve Paris

I need to replace the cylinder because the original lock jammed. I had a locksmith out to repair it and he ended up breaking the cylinder part because he used a plier to turn the knob - long story. So I am now doing it myself to correct for the previous locksmith's error.

I cannot file down the key. I have all the locks - front door dead bolt above and below, rear door dead bolt above and below, the deadbolts on the door between the kitchen and garage, a total of six locks all keyed to the same key and I have six copies of this key carried by three members of the family. I would rather avoid filing down six keys to make them work with one lock and become problematic with the other five.

I will try to take it back to the locksmith with the screw in-place and see what he says.

Thanks,

MC

Reply to
MiamiCuse

I don't understand - I have difficulty picturing the putting back to front part. The lock is not symmetrical in it's cross section view, so I could not have inserted it upside down, One side is a turn knob and the other side is a key entry, so if I insert it the other way around I would need to use a key to exit and someone outside will turn the knob to enter? I do not follow what you mean by turning it around, can you elaborate?

Thanks,

MC

Reply to
MiamiCuse

Ok... Two things:

(1) Filing a small amount of material off the tip of your key will not do anything to it that will stop it from working in your other locks...

99.99% of all residential locks are "shoulder stop" so it won't hurt...

(2) Returning to the lock shop over and over won't SOLVE your particular problem -- nor is the locksmith currently helping you required to keep assisting you... His product that he sold you works, it is a matter of some problem with being installed...

You will eventually need a locksmith to come out and see why the cylinder and the lock are not getting along... Bring JUST the cylinder back to the locksmith's shop won't allow him to see why it isn't working...

Evan, ~~ formerly a maintenance man, now a college student...

Reply to
Evan

!!!!.... I WONDER, if forcing that damaged some part of the latch????

might want to pull the WHOLE THING out, and take it along..

--Shiva--

Reply to
--Shiva--

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