modify existing lock for electronic entry?

Our department wants to modify computer lab doors so that they can be
unlocked using some sort of computerized authorization based on either
rfid or magnetic stripe keycards. Unfortunately, the University
requires that we retain the current mechanical locks so that they can
always open all doors using current keys, so simply replacing the
locks isn't an option. The main problem is finding something to open
the manual locks without giving everyone access to a normal key.
Is there some sort of device that can be installed into an existing
lock to open it electronically?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Reply to
Brett
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Trying to install something into the lock itself.... You can pretty much forget that if you want to retain operation with the current keys as well. If you were willing to give that up, things could be done with some of the compact electronic lock cylinder retrofits.
You really don't want to think about trying to re-engineer exisiting lock mechanisms for electric release -- it's sometimes possible, in theory, but I don't think you'd save much money over buying locks professionally adapted... and those, unlike your homebrews, would pass UL and code ratings.
This sounds like a perfect application for an electrified strike. The door and its lock are completely unaltered; the electric release mechanism gets morised into the frame. Take your pick of controllers for how it gets triggered -- combo, mag card, prox card, TI chip, thumbprint, etc -- based on your security needs. For this application, it sounds like you'd want fail-secure rather than fail-safe, but think about that one too.
There can still be some mounting difficulties -- eg, if the frames are concrete-filled, getting the wires to the strike can be a pain -- and the strike has to be matched to (and in some cases, adjusted carefully to) so you want someone who has at least a partial clue to do an on-site evaluation.
Reply to
Joe Kesselman
What about leaving the lock alone and going to an electrically operated strike? It will require modification of the door frame, but the lock can be left unmodified.
Reply to
Henry E Schaffer
"Brett" wrote in message:
Joe and Henry have good advice for you here..
I can understand the policy where the University wants to have keyed locks on all of its doors, as they work even when the power goes out (you would be surprised at just how many nifty gizmos aren't hooked up to emergency power circuits) , and having keyed locks allows "authorized" personnel (facilities and public safety) to gain entry to any room at any time...
A properly designed and installed electrified strike sounds to me to be the best solution for the application you have described... The electrified strike can be operated by any controller you can feel your budget can afford to purchase (but consider the future automation of access control on the campus and make sure any equipment you buy now will fit into your future plans)... It can be "fail-secure" because people inside the room wanting to exit will be able to do so as the electric strike doesn't adversely effect the operating of the lock installed in the door...
As far as your question about what kind of identification credentials to use on your security/access system, what kind of cards do you have on campus right now ??? Do other areas of the college use access control cards ??? Does the cafeteria use id cards with magnetic stripes to keep track of students with meal plans ??? If you look at the bigger picture on campus you might be able to integrate several functions with one id card... This sounds like something that should be carefully considered with an eye to the future, as this could be the beginnings of a much larger access control system and you would want to be able to comfortably expand it without having to replace the hardware ou are going to buy for this project you are considering now because it isn't adaptable or compatible...
Joe made note of several things you would want to watch out for as far as conditions of the frame that can add to the expense of your project... You want this done right the first time so it is well advised that your facilities department consult a locksmith with a lot of experience with electronic access control devices...
It sounds as if you loathe having locks with keys on the doors... It is usually in the best interest of everyone's safety that the doors can be opened even if the power to the controller goes out... However, it sounds as if you have MANY people who need to have routine access to your computer labs and issuing that many keys does often have an negative effect on the overall security of the room involved... You are asking the right questions to begin to plan your solution, you should see if you can get some money to have a locksmith do a site survey and come up with a few project proposal ideas... Having the proposals will allow you to see if you can afford to fund the project within your department's budget or if it is something that will need to be brought before a capital project approval process...
Good luck...
Evan, ~~ formerly a maintenance man, now a college student
Reply to
Evan
Ottawa Canada
You can retain the existing mechanical locks and install a card access system using an electric strike, like in an apartment front door.
Most universities of any size have an in-house locksmith who if he isn't knowledgable on card access products and electric strikes can get hold of the local expert and get you firm pricing and delivery dates for the card access system you choose.
If you don't have an in-house locksmith, you will probably need your Physical Plant people to research the question and prepare proposals for you.
If you work for Physical Plant and need to find an expert, check the Yellow Pages under Locksmiths and give them a call.
I am kind of spoiled in that I formerly lived in Toronto and the Yellow Pages listed firms that sold and serviced everything from storm door locks to jail locks, New and Used Locomotives and Builders of Bridges.
Good luck.
Brian
Brett ( snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com) writes:
Reply to
Brian K.Lingard
Electric strikes in the door frame. Then the card can energize the strike OR you can use the key to retract the door latch.
Mag stripe keycards are prone to be erased and/or damaged. I recommend either rfid (prox) cards or biometric recognition. Fingerprint readers are great. Depending on what you choose, I can make recommendations as to software (and the hardware that goes with it). How many doors? How many labs? How many buildings? Will the computer that controls the doors be in the same building as the doors? What kind of budget? Does your maintenance department have the skills to get the wiring done as aesthetically as required?
Reply to
Aegis
Ottawa Canada
In addition to looking into electric strikes, you will also need to look iunto a card access system to operate the strikes when that is allowed to enter sticks their card in the reader.
Even, formerly a maintenence man gave excellent suggestions in his post and I stand by my comment that your in-house locksmith is a good place to start researching electric strikes and card access.
Remember the price an outside supplier may not be the same as what your Physical Plant department will charge your department.
Often Physical Plant will surcharge the bill of the outside supplier to cover the operating overhead of Physical Plant administering the contract etc.
Electric strikes come in various descriptions and range from light duty for a door seldom used to extra heavy duty for busy doors and I would strongly recommend you buy a heavy duty electric strike, as computer lab doors will be constaqntly opened and closed.
Good luck.
Brian
Brett ( snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com) writes: > Thanks. I'll look into electric strikes.
Reply to
Brian K.Lingard
One point that no one seems to have raised. The University would appear to have no objection to the existing locks being replaced as long as the replaced locks have key over-ride which can be incorporated into what ever masterkey system is in use (it would seem that the only key that will be needed is the masterkey used for emergency access by security guards or the local Fire Department). Depending on a host of circumstances this may be the best option.
Reply to
Peter
I was assuming they *did* have objections, whether on basis of cost or fire-code or whatever. But you're right, the querant should go back to them and make sure the right questions have been asked and the real issue is being addressed.
Reply to
Joe Kesselman
Wouldn't these locks need to possibly be changed to store room function anyway? Not much point in having electronic access if you can unlock the outside trim is there?
Reply to
miles
Ottawa Canada
No, you would not want to set the mechanical locks to storeroom function, only allowing them to be opened from the outside either with a key or magnetic card.
The doors are on computer labs and will be full of people using computers who have to get out in the event of fire, flood or even if their magnetic card is damaged or the card reader is damaged.
Typically you would want the doors to operate apartment building front door style, where the card or key are required to gain entry, but there is a push bar or unkeyed lever knob on the inside of the door to grant free exit to all.
Brian
miles ( snipped-for-privacy@aol.com) writes:
Reply to
Brian K.Lingard
isnt that store room function.. outside ALWAYS locked (and cannot be set 'open')? and inside, is ALWAYS available to open.. classroom can be left UNLOCKED on the outside, by which way the key is turned.. but store room cannot be --Shiva--
Reply to
--Shiva--
Ottawa Canada
I guess it depends on your definition of storeroom function.
I would define Storeroom function as opens always from either side unless locked with the key.
Classroom function in my experience is always opens from the inside and the outside can be locked with a key.
On Yale mortise locks set for classroom function, you can also lock the outside knob by pressing the appropriate button on the edge of the door and can unlock the outside knob by pressing the other button on the edge of the door.
Back in my university days the night watchman would not lock up the computer room I was in because he thought he would lock me in so I told him I would lock up when I was finished. Upon leaving the computer room I would just prerss the stop work button on the edge of the door, test the outside knob to ensure it was locked, and let it close behind me. Worked great for four years.
Always wondered who I had to visit to get a key to one building to get in evenings and weekends that was frequented by graduate students. Turned out not even the graduate students had keys, they just used the secret night entrance.
It was close to the parking lot and a loading dock and was marked:
No Admittance!
The same university had a short hallway connecting two buildings together that had the doors arranged in a weird way.
You could often get into the hallway from one or the other building, but once inside, you found the door you entered through solidly locked from your side and the door to the other building also locked solidly.
I wonder if they ever figured out this potential death trap?
It is amazing how a basic flaw in building hardware specifications can go unnoticed for years then when discovered, administration wonders how the H someone could make a mistake that stupid and have it go on for years.
Back door of the apartment building I lived in Scarborough for years would periodically jam the key in the keyway. I found that some careful fiddling would almost alwaysrelease the key and collected a number of sets of keys that had been abandoned, with one stuck in the lock.
Being a good sport, I would stuff the keys in an envelope, mark it found in back door and drop them into the building superintendent's mail slot in his office door.
One little known trick of the back door was that if you manually pushed in the bolt and turned the key the other way, you could lock the door open!
I'm glad almost no one knew about this as we had enough security problems in that building as is.
Like the day a bunch of deliverymen from a tv rental company tried to deliver their color tvs to the back door of the building which had no intercom for them to buzz up to get in.
I still thinbk I should have noted the numbers of the trucks and phoned the tv rental company about that one! They must have been expecting to be met by someone from inside the building who didn't make it to the door on time to let them in. I refused to let them in and told them to go to the front and buzz up.
Ber darned if they didn't!
I know that tv rental company has a world class skip tracing department as they often have to track down renters who skip without paying for the tv. But you would think their own employees would be trustworthy. Guess they get what they deserve, paying their deliverymen minimum wage and no benefits.
Brian
--Shiva-- ( snipped-for-privacy@abuse.net) writes: > >
Reply to
Brian K.Lingard
"Brian K.Lingard" wrote in message: .
ANSI defines "Storeroom Function" (F07) locksets as: "Latchbolt retracted by key outside or by lever/knob inside. Outside lever/knob always inoperative. Auxiliary latch deadlocks latchbolt when door is closed."
ANSI defines "Classroom Function" (F05) locksets as: "Latchbolt retracted by lever/knob from either side unless outside is locked by key. Unlocked from outside by key. Inside lever/knob is always free for immediate exit. Auxiliary latch deadlocks latchbolt when door is closed."
By definition a classroom function lockset (and yes I agree there are several different variations also defined as "classroom function") can only be locked/unlocked form the outside with a key. This makes sense if you consider where these locks are to be installed. In a school you would only want authorized personnel (teachers, staff, etc.) to be able to unlock doors. A lock equipped with stopworks on the lock front would be able to be unlocked by anyone who can open the door from the inside. Most building codes require classroom spaces to have two or three doors. Doors to adjoining rooms are often only passage function as they are serving as emergency exits for two rooms and therefore need to be unlocked from both sides at all times.
That sounds more like while it may be called and used as a classroom function lock it is not UL listed as one.
"No Admittance" doesn't mean very much. In Massachusetts even doors marked "No Entry" or "No Trespassing" mean very little. The signs marking doors leading into off-limits areas must include the text of the actual law you would be breaking and charged with by entering the area, and a warning such as "By entering this area without proper authorization you could be subject to arrest for Trespassing" but that is only here in Massachusetts there are at least 50 other different rules and procedures in the 49 other states and for Federally owned facilities.
There were not any doors exiting from the corridor to the outside ? Usually in situations as you describe the corridor is serving two purposes, one is to provide a covered passageway between the two buildings, but at the same time also be an emergency exit from both buildings. A person exiting one building in an emergency only needs to be able to get outside and not into another building.
--cut out apartment building door story--
Evan, ~~formerly a maintenance man, now a college student
Reply to
Evan
according to the lists, storeroom CANNOT be 'made open' on the outside.. it requires a key EACH time you want it open
classroom can be set locked OR unlocked. on the outside..
Classroom Function (ANSI F08) Key unlocks lever for extended period, until key is used to re-lock lever. Lock functions in passage mode while exterior lever is in unlocked mode.
Schlage uses the following..
A10S Passage Both knobs always unlocked
A40S Privacy Push button locking on inside
A170 Single Dummy Dummy trim for one side of door
A53PD Entrance Turn push button inside to lock, key outside
A70PD Classroom Inside always unlocked, key outside locks/unlocks knob
A80PD Storeroom Inside always unlocked, outside always locked, key retracts latch
--Shiva--
Reply to
--Shiva--
Ottawa Canada
I would call a door that always opens from the inside but always requires a key or a card to open it from the outside a Hotel Room function.
Whoever specified the hardware for the hallway connecting the two buildings made a big boo boo as the hallway had no door to the outside, just doors that connected it to the basement of the two buildings!
So at night or on a weekend, once inside the hallway with its solid cement block walls, you would be therre until Monday morning when campus security came around and unlocked the doors.
Brian "Evan" ( snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) writes: > "Brian K.Lingard" wrote in message: > .
Reply to
Brian K.Lingard
sorry, thats another one YET.. and you can call it whatever you want, BUT ANSI is the AFAIK, 'defining council' on what is called what.
Hotel locks have (or can have) another thing YET.. and that is the ability to require a 'certain' key, to over ride the inside lock. IE, the tenant pushes a button on the inside and this 'locks out' the maids key.. this requires the special key that THEN bypasses that lock.. from the outside --Shiva--
Reply to
--Shiva--
rfids can be read at a considerable distance by someone with the equipment. Stuff the reader in a radio-transparent gym bag/briefcase/etc and hang around the entry area, you can get a signal from someone walking in.
biometric recognition can be useful, but it has inherent downsides.
most fingerprint readers aren't worth the components they're created from... google for "gelatin fingerprint PCB". Most readers STILL haven't fixed this imitation finger vulnerability.
your average thief will be deterred by such things, but they're very beatable by someone who knows what they are doing.
it's extremely difficult to remotely read magstripes at distance.
Reply to
Undisclosed

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