Re: Grid-Battery "Hybrid" Tractors

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:36:42 -0500, John Fields wrote:


Sigh. Basics of electrical pwer distribution; distrubte in as high a voltage as you can to reduce current being moved,then transform down for local requirements.> AFAIK, 11Kv is the next step up from 415V supply.

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On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:57:23 +1000, terryc

--
Very good!

You, at least, seem know what you're talking about. :-)
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Still trying to dodge the OP issue, the cost of diesel fuel?
Are you just acting dumb or are you really this stupid in real life?
Bret Cahill
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On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:47:24 -0700, BretCahill wrote:

Seriously, it isn't really ever an issue because oce you start looking at the alternatives, it just beats them hands down.
Now, at about $1,000/barrel, it might be a big issue.
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On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:47:24 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@peoplepc.com wrote:

--
Nope, the cost of diesel fuel is what it is and your lunatic raving
isn't going to change it.
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Which is trivial merely by wiring in more batteries in parallel.
Are you just acting dumb or are you really this stupid in real life?
. . .

The real savings appear in the energy intensive operations.
The more energy intensive the operation, the bigger the savings from moving from diesel to batteries.
If you go to less energy intensive operations, say a garden tractor, it is of course cheaper to go Li-Ion instead of liquid fuel, but the absolute savings aren't all that great.
Are you just acting stupid or are you really a moron in real life?
Bret Cahill
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terryc wrote:

The boiler isn't a pressurized tank. It's a firetube flash boiler. It can vent if it fails, but it doesn't have sufficient pressurized volume to explode. The "boiler explosion" scenario was just one of several dishonest ploys to dismiss steam technology.
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Hundreds of feet of "fire tube" that needs to be cleaned every time you try to burn biomass.

"Still, it's easy to see why steam failed. When you bought a Doble, you got a list of things your chauffeur was supposed to do every week. Nobody would stand for weekly maintenance these days. Plus, you've got to carry steam oil, water and gasoline."
And that's burning the _clean_ stuff.
Bret Cahill
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We need applied math folk for the final spreadsheet work. No reason to piss 'em off.
Bret Cahill
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_You_ not "we."
The original issue was _always_ the $100 billion wasted on diesel.
Bret Cahill
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On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:45:32 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@peoplepc.com wrote:

Who wastes $100b a year on diesel?
John
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On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:45:32 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@peoplepc.com wrote:

--
But it's not the issue presently, what is is whether you understand
the economics of battery charging. You obviously don't and changed
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The cost of liquid fuel compared to grid-battery is the only reason to discuss the electric tractor.
If you try to weasel out of the relative cost of diesel vs grid- battery everyone will know you're a loser as well as a moron.

There is one reason and one reason only to discuss the cost of grid- battery energy:
To compare it with diesel.
To win this debate you'll need to show how diesel power is cheaper than charging batteries and running an electic motor off them.
You cannot so you will try to dodge the issue of diesel costs altogether.
Bret Cahill
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On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:14:04 -0700, Bret Cahill wrote:

Oh, how do I find your figures?
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On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:14:04 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill

--
Since I've shown that your harebrained scheme is impractical and
unworkable and that diesel is here and working 24-7-365, no matter
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I have no problems with a _small_ ICE on the tractor.

And?
These seem to be more a fortiori arguments for electrifying the farm.

Sounds like the perfect application for a high low end torque electric motor.

You mean the diesel tank that dumps $300/hour down the drain?
THAT diesel tank?

But the tractor only needs a battery that'll last a few minutes.

Which must run _much_ longer times between charging than the tractor.

They have a _better_ chance because they never go very far.

OK, then we're ready to install a wire and electrify the farm!
Kudos for Cat!

There are no negative economies of scale here.

What other choice does he have?
Running diesel from Mexico 20X times/day?
And even _that_ ridiculous solution cannot last long because the governors of the border estados have started going to Mexico City to whine that they cannot handle the demand caused by gringo farmers.
It's a whole lot easier and more cost effective to just go electric.
This diesel nonsense is for the birds.
Bret Cahill
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Hopefully.
Economies of scale make the power plant much safer.
Bret Cahill
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There are dozens of farm service companies in agricultural areas because the reality is no farmer needs the same equipment 24/7/52.
For example, if a farmer needed his 400 hp articulated tractor going 0.5 mph 356 days out of the year then he'ld be working about 10 feet^2 / sec.
That 774 hours or over 3 months of 8 hour days to complete just one square mile.
Bret Cahill
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On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:01:27 -0700, BretCahill wrote:

Lol, the problem with this idea is that farmers producing the same crop generally all do the same job at the same time.
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Another argument for grid battery tractors. For longer higher power applications, all you really need to rent _or_ buy is another battery in parallel.
There is just no situation where diesel is more cost effective than grid battery.
Not in energy costs, not in labor costs, not in capital costs, not in maintenance costs.
Bret Cahill
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