A thought provoking post on Facebook

"Since 2003,:
3,542 Americans have died in combat in the Iraq War 4,775 have died in Chicago murders"
Some very interesting comments: My favorite...
"Time to pull out of Chicago. The government is too corrupt and unstable."'
Gunner
"
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On 10/12/2013 12:52 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

An EMT I sat next to on a flight to Seattle recently told me that a trip to the ER in Chicago (by ambulance) now costs the patient (assuming they are not an illegal alien) some $40,000.00 due to the costs the hospitals incur from all the shootings. The hospital socializes the monetary costs of gang related shootings so that anyone coming to the ER who has the means to pay is billed a minimum amount of $40 K. Illegal aliens get a pass since they usually show up with a false identity and enjoy a de facto free "go to the ER" form of Brown Privilege that citizens don't get.
As an aside, I would imagine that the vast majority of those who are murdered in Chicago are not innocents. Their deaths are maybe a net positive for the Windy City.
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Steve from Colorado wrote:

https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/News/Statistical%20Reports/Murder%20Reports/MA11.pdf
There is no need to imagine anything, just refer to this very complete statistical analysis for 2011. Short form (they apparently had an Indian on the warpath so some of the pie slices don't add to 100%)
94.8% of the murderers are black or hispanic. 87.3% have priors. 94.2% of the victims are black or hispanic. 76.9% had priors.
There is also historical data, breakdowns by age, sex, or anything else you ever wanted to know about murder in Chicago.
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On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 21:43:53 -0600, rbowman

===========================Time of day is particurarly interesting. One obvious pallative measure would be the imposition of a strict curfew, at least in the more violent areas. Not only would this help reduce the murder rate, but should also reduce drug traffic, street prostitution and DWI/DUI arrests.
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On 10/13/2013 9:31 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:

Are curfews constitutional, in the USA? I mean, regardless of any benefit, we need to ask if such is legal.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 09:52:43 -0400, Stormin Mormon

=============================http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Curfew <snip> Adult Curfews & Strict Scrutiny
Curfews directed at adults touch upon fundamental constitutional rights and thus are subject to strict judicial scrutiny. The U. S. Supreme Court has ruled that "[t]he right to walk the streets, or to meet publicly with one's friends for a noble purpose or for no purpose at alland to do so whenever one pleasesis an integral component of life in a free and ordered society." Papachristou v. City of Jacksonville, 405 US 156, 164, 31 L. Ed. 2d 110, 92 S. Ct 839 (1972).
To satisfy strict-scrutiny analysis, a government-imposed curfew on adults must be supported by a compelling state interest that is narrowly tailored to serve the curfew's objective. Court's are loath to find that an interest advanced by the government is compelling. The more justifications that courts find to uphold a curfew on adults, the more watered-down becomes the fundamental right to travel and to associate with others in public places at all times of the day.
The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that this right may be legitimately curtailed when a community has been ravaged by flood, fire, or disease, or when its safety and Welfare are otherwise threatened. Zemel v. Rusk, 381 U.S. 1, 85 S. Ct. 1271, 14 L. Ed. 2d 179 (1965). The California Court of Appeals cited this ruling in a case that reviewed an order issued by the city of Long Beach, California, which declared a state of emergency and imposed curfews on all adults (and minors) within the city's confines after widespread civil disorder broke out following the Rodney G. King beating trial, in which four white Los Angeles police officers were acquitted of using excessive force in subduing an African-American motorist following a high-speed traffic chase. In re Juan C., 28 Cal. App. 4th 1093, 33 Cal. Rptr. 2d 919 (Cal. App. 1994).
"Rioting, looting and burning," the California court wrote, "pose a similar threat to the safety and welfare of a community, and provide a compelling reason to impose a curfew." "The right to travel is a hollow promise when members of the community face the possibility of being beaten or shot by an unruly mob if they attempt to exercise this right," the court continued, and "[t]emporary restrictions on the right are a reasonable means of reclaiming order from anarchy so that all might exercise their constitutional rights freely and safely." West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved. <snip> =============================IMSHO the current situation in Chicago appears to more than meet the above criteria. I am reasonably sure the vast majority of Chicago residents, who are law abiding and productive, would heave a huge sigh of relief knowing the low lifes are off the street at some reasonable hour.
For a more detailed proposal including how the cities can be "motivated" to adopt/implement curfews see http://mcduffee-associates.us/DROP%20BOX/curfew.pdf
FWIW I never got a response.
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On 10/12/2013 3:57 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:

Opens up interesting thought. The US has managed to divide into classes. We've always had the poor among us. But now days, the poor have cars, AC, bling, and medical care. All paid for by the middle class tax payer, and paid for "balanced on the backs" of our kids and grand kids. I'm not happy with our elected reps who have set up laws, where people who aren't citizens and or don't work, get money and benefits paid for by me.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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Gunner Asch wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_States

That's one of the founding myths. However:
http://www.history.org/almanack/life/classes.cfm
Suffrage was not universal in the newly formed country. Property requirements were still in place, women, slaves, and others couldn't vot. If you read some of the early leaders like John Adams, you'll find the opinion was the fewer people that voted the better or the great unwashed would take over the country.
There is mobility but just because the mechanic in a Lawrence textile plant might have made it to a house on the hill doesn't mean the people up on the hill had anything in common with the workers down in the row houses.
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On 10/13/2013 9:51 PM, rbowman wrote:

And, looking back on it, he was exactly right.
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Richard wrote:

John Adams, who brought you the Alien and Sedition Acts that made it illegal to criticize the government or its minions. He would fit right in. The secind president and the dream was already dying.
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On 10/14/2013 9:12 AM, rbowman wrote:

I think he was thinking about aliens voting in US elections. (getting free medical care, anchor babies) and maybe even alien elected officials.
And millions of illegal aliens occupying the land.
Mr. Adams' job was to protect the union.
Even today. Especially today?
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Richard wrote:

Mostly he was thinking about barring Albert Gallatin from public office. The Sedition Act was aimed at the Democratic-Republican Party.
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On 10/14/2013 12:16 AM, Richard wrote:

Slaves had long since been emancipated when in the 1900's women's suffrage was championed and won.
Woodrow Wilson the Progressive-Democrat and eugenics supporter was one who re-segregated the military and helped the woman's suffrage movement while he sent all the men off to WWI.
Which begs the question of what did blacks not offer Democrats that women voters did? And it looks like it's their votes, so the Democrats that stayed home from WWI gave women the right to vote and then held back on allowing blacks to advance in society because they might vote Republican as they could still remember which party had actually freed the slaves....
In retrospect it all looks very cold and calculated on the Democrats part.
--



*Rumination*
#19 - Deciding how much Socialism is too much, is like deciding how much
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On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 12:05:10 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty

Its all been part of the grand scheme by the Democrats to minimize Republicans as much as possible. When they discovered that dispite all their efforts they couldnt do it at the polls...they developed voter fraud into a fine art.
"
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On 10/14/2013 11:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

But they *did* it at the polls.
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Oct 2013 12:05:10 -0400 typed in misc.survivalism the following:

    Never attribute to cleverness, that which can also be explained by malice. Wilson was a racist, as well as a Progressive. So doing what he could to put down them darkies required no thought at all.
--
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
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On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:37:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich

Hummm...something indeed to ponder!
--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
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On 10/14/2013 11:37 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

I see the wisdom here.
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wrote:

The last 2 elections certainly proved that to be correct.

But the people on the hill were few in number, while the workers in the row houses were the majority.
"
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Gunner Asch wrote:

True, but it was the minority that was calling the shots, then as now. The populism of the early 20th century was defused by throwing a few bones to the people in the row houses but it was business as usual.
For example, do you think Romney was the best candidate that could have been put forth? In the primaries, the voters certainly weren't enthusiastic. However the GOP establishment consistently boosted him. If you don't travel in the king maker circles, you take what they give you. Why do you think the GOP is pissing their panties about the Tea Party? Right or wrong, it's the Young Turks challenging the GOP power structure.
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