Best Phillips Screwdrivers?

For many years now, I have always used the black handle Xcelite Phillips screwdrivers with the chrome shaft & black tip. I outfitted my
electronics bench with a fresh set a few years ago, and the #1 Phillips tip is already toast. I took apart a dead stick vacuum cleaner today that had a dozen screws down in holes, and I had to get my other #1 driver from my woodworking toolbox to finish the job. It is also showing signs of excess wear on the tip.
One problem is that the #1 tip is very pointy, and I think it is bottoming out on some screws, which increases its tendency to slip. This accellerates the damage & makes it more likely to slip the next time. The #2 tip is definitely rounded and no where near as pointy. The #0 seems to have a some of the same issue, but not as pronounced.
I'm going to have to replace the #1's (and may get another #0 as well), and was wondering if folks have a favorite brand that grips screws well and holds up better. I've had good luck with Wiha drivers in the past, but mostly for smaller stuff (jeweller's screwdriver size).
Thanks!
Doug White
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 26 Dec 2016, Doug White wrote:

Isn't the issue that there is some Japanese variant of the Phillips screw, called something else, so while nominally a Phillips fits it, it's not really a match?
So either you can't open the screws, or it ruins the screwdriver in the process.
Michael
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 26/12/16 19:12, Michael Black wrote:

Are you thinking of a pozidrive screw, if so a Phillips screwdriver shouldn't be used. See http://bsfixings.uk/the-difference-between-phillips-and-pozi-screw and http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/17312/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-a-pozidriv-screwdriver-on-a-phillips-head and others. They're commonly mistaken and the wrong drivers used with the wrong screw potentially damages both the driver and the screw.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

to-

The screws I was working on this morning appear to be Phillips. At least there is no sign of the extra cross in the heads. I'm not sure how common Posi-Drive is these days. I tend to buy most of my hardware from McMaster Carr, and it's all regular Phillips. They don't even list Posi-Drive as an option, and they have quite a range of drive styles available.
It's possible that I've run into some Posi-Drives in the past, but the vast majority of the screws I see these days are plain old Phillips. I think Xcelite just isn't very careful with shaping the points on their drivers. Either that, or the screw manufacturers are making a lot of "Phillips" screws with shallow sockets. Or both...
Doug White
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I think it is both. Crappy Chinese screws built to miss a loose standard combined with the same philosophy in building screw-drivers.
Actually many of the "international" screwdrivers are closer to a Frearson or Reed-Prince driver. The Frearson (reed prince) has a sharp point on the driver. Reed-Prince (Frearson) screws have a sharp square corner on each quarter of the head, while a philips has a rounded corner. A PoziDrived has the 4 light lines to identify it.
The drivers are NOT interchangeable.
Then you ban ad the JIS screws - The B1012s which are used on a lot of Japanese equipment - if not too tight a Philips driver will work, but the strip out if too tight. Actually closer to the Frearson driver profile. but the Frearson cross slot is of a smaller diameter than the JIS.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Doug-
Granted that some Phillips screwdrivers are made of soft metal. However most of my problems have been related to using the wrong size Phillips. In your original post, you mentioned using #0, #1 and #2 on the same screws.
I have found some Phillips drivers in auto parts stores that claimed to be heat-treated. They seem to last longer, but eventually become rounded as well.
Perhaps the suggestion to use "inserts" would do the job. I occasionally use Phillips bits with a drill/driver, and have not had one go bad yet. I think the drill/driver would be more abusive than a plain Phillips screwdriver.
Fred
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

the

I
their

However

Phillips.

to

one

plain

The screws I was fighting with today were down in deep holes, so there was no way I could use an insert driver. The screws were small, and looked to be well suited to a #1. When that didn't work, I managed to get enough of a purchase with a #2 to get them out. One was in a smaller hole (same sized screw), and I could only get the #1 down it. If anything, I would have called the screws 1.5's...
The reason I mention #0, #1, & #2 was that I seem to have the most trouble with the Xcelite #1 drivers. Both examples I have are more pointy for their size than either the #0 or #2, and both #1's have the tips trashed. I don't recall if I bought them at the same time, but I don't think so.
Doug White
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

    [ ... ]

    I've found at the local electronics parts place sets of 1/4" hex drive screwdriver bits about 6" long. The larger ones are hex the whole way down, but the smaller ones are turned to the proper diameter for a normal screwdriver so they will if down those deep holes.
BTW -- when using them in a drill with torque limiting the weight of the     rill motor helps apply more axial force to the bit to keep it     irmly seated in he screw, so they do tend to last longer in     such service than you would expect.
    And -- remember, the Phillips screw was *designed* to torque     out to limit the chance of wringing off a screw during     production assembly.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 14:12:39 -0500

Maybe "Pozidriv" I use to run in to them while working on two-way radios. I had a couple special screwdrivers just for them. A regular Philips would work but was sloppy. They usually had four cut marks on the screw head for identification. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Pozidriv
There are several more possibilities too. Check out the link...
As far as screwdrivers... I tend to use 1/4 inch inserts when ever possible. Save the real screwdrivers for those deep holes where inserts won't work. They last much longer that way. I haven't bought any "good" ones for some time now. Nowadays it would be a guessing game. What was great and you bought a year ago could be re-sourced now and crap, yet look exactly the same...
I also use the Harbor Freight freebie set for stuff that doesn't need a good screwdriver :)
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@ncf.ca says...

There is a Pozidriv screw that looks very much like the Phillips screw. It will have 4 marks on it inbetween the 'slots' of the Phillips so you can tell which is which. The Phillips are made to cam out under so much force. You may need to get some of the Pozidriv screw drivers.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

This would probably be a "JIS" screw. I have some Vessel brand and Wiha drivers that fit them well.
--
Mr.E

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload


Well, I now have a set of Vessel JIS screwdrivers. They appear to be just as pointy as the Phillips drivers I have. I did some digging, and ran across a drwaing that compares JIS to Phillips:
http://revlimiter.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/post-297194-0- 10691700-1393492211.png
The JIS appears to be pointier. However, I also found a photograph that compares the two:
http://www.shop.shinhopples.com/images/screws_JIS_phillips_comparison.jp g
and that shows exactly the opposite.
I think my conclusion is that nobody makes screws or screwdrivers with tight enough tolerances to be certain of anything. The advice to try different drivers until you find one that doesn't wiggle before you apply any force seems as good as it's going to get. I may also grind the tips back a bit on some of my pointier drivers.
I still need to replace my Phillips #1's, and based on the various comments, I think I will try Wera or Wiha.
Thanks for all the input & discussion. I'd forgotten all about Reed Prince, although I'm not sure I've ever run across any.
Doug White
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 02:56:53 GMT
<snip>

I would say they are mislabeled. The look correct if you reverse the labels.

Those look like I would expect...

I don't think it pays to be a tool elitist anymore. Name Brands are churning out crap too. One year they selling something good, next year it isn't but looks EXACTLY the same.
You should just stop into your preferred store, Menards, Home Depot, Lowes, Sears... and look over what they have. If you use it a short time and it seems to be okay go buy a spare :)
If you have a company account you order through though... that's a different can of worms...
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug White wrote:

I have a number of Wiha drivers, and have been very happy with their fit and longevity. I don't use them for home construction projects, only for electronics, so they have seen a bit gentler service.
Jon
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It has an alphanumeric designation.
The crosspoint head is shallower so the point of the bit bottoms out and the side blades only half engage.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload


That sounds suspiciously like what I ran into today. Of course, it's impossible to tell when they are an inch down a narrow hole.
I'll have to investigate getting a special set of drivers for small appliance repair.
Doug White
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload


Put some engineer's blue (or correction fluid) on the end of the screwdriver, seat it in the screw head and give it a sharp tap with something.
You may find that the coating on the pointy tip is compacted - you could maybe try grinding a very small bit off the pointy bit and see if it gives you more purchase.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload


That may work in the future, but for now, I have two #1 Phillips screw drivers with trashed tips I need to replace. Which brings me back to my original question...
Doug White
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The only craftsman philips drivers I ever damaged were replaced without a question. I think it was 2 in over 40 years.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

The last one that I exchanged was a #2. I broke the tip the first time I used it. I was removing the cover from a computer. One of those cheap Chinese #6, with a combo Philips/hex head. I removed it with a no name driver that I bought from 'Bud's Place', which was Walmart's closeout branding. I bought 100 of them for 25 cents each. I had intended to braze some of the 1/4" hex security bits on them, but I have never managed to wear one out.
I've never bought another Craftsman tool since then. That was about 20 years ago.
--
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.