Bridgeport -- transportation and putting it on casters

I have a few questions, A few related to transportation of this mill and a few related to moving it around.
TRANSPORTATION.
1. It will be loaded on my trailer by a certified rigger (Russian speaking). No problems here. I will load it without major disassembly.
Questions:
* How do I tie it down properly so it does not move if I brake.
* Just where exactly to place it, directly above axle or a little below?
* Do I need to put plywood underneath the mill?
Regarding unloading, my own thinking is that the easiest thing to do would be to just rent a forklift for a few hours on Saturday. Would you think that someone could use a forklift safely without prior experience.
SETTING UP THE MILL INSIDE THE GARAGE.
This is a 2,200 lsb mill. I know that I will need to move it from time to time. I want to put it on casters. I bought some casters (which I have not yet received) that are advertised as rated for 2,500 lbs each.
There are obviously good ways of putting it on casters and bad ways. The bad way would be to raise the mill by 8" inches and have a narrow caster base. That is not what I want to do.
Note that the mill's base has holes in it.
What I would like is buy steel 2x4s, longer than the base is wide, bolt them to the base above the base, so that they protrude outside the base, and attach casters to the bottom of those 2x4s. That would raise the mill by maybe 1" (here I am making some guesstimates). I will try to make sure that would not fall even if a caster fails.
I wanted to hear some practical experiences with moving mills around, esp. from people who had them fall, to know why they fell.~
i
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some pictures of the trailer, mill, and casters
Trailer: http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Homemade-Trailer-With-M105A2-Bed/ Mill: http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Bridgeport-1HP/ Casters: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item 0106010025
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Common sense will tell you how to place your straps. Pro rigger? He'll know. The manual tells you how to lift it. Lift it with one fork on either side of the ram, pad the forks a bit so you don't scratch it.
PLEASE DO NOT PUT IT ON CASTERS!!! It's too top heavy, I smell a whoops!
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On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 02:22:37 GMT, "Tom Gardner"

Preferably with a piece of 2x4 under the front of the ram.

Gunner
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On Apr 14, 9:25 pm, Ignoramus18706 <ignoramus18...@NOSPAM. 18706.invalid> wrote:> I wanted to hear some practical experiences with moving mills around,
I can finally contribute something here...
I have moved my Bridgeports *MANY* times over the years, being too stubborn to sell them and buy new ones at the new location.
The first one I ever got was in the Bronx, and I was in Fort Lauderdale. I took an F350 truck up there, put it in the bed, and drove it back home. That was stupid. But I did it just the same.
The *best* way to move them involves a few things, all of which are covered in the manual. First, as pointed out, pick them up by placing a forklift tine under each part of the ram's dovetail that stcks out past the actual turret. Make sure to use a block of wood on top of each tine to avoid damaging the dovetail. There is also a place on top of the ram that is threaded to accept an eye bolt. It is recommended to flip the head upside down, as it lowers the center of gravity of the machine. Place of block of wood underneath it and raise the knee/table so that it gently supports the head from bouncing, and lock it in place. Try and keep the table as inboard (close to the column) as you can, while still supporting the head with the wood.
Lift away. Carefully. Go VERY slow.
Often, Bridgeys like to swing, both for and aft, and a little side to side, because of the weight distribution. I will always place a block of wood against the base and tie it there with some rope, so that it doesn't damage itself or the forklift if it swings inward... I also like to grab the rear of the ram with a tie down strap and secure it to the fork tine so that the machine doesn't swing on the tines, either,
Other than that, it's actually pretty easy and straight forward to do.
I'm getting ready to move them again, soon... Both my manual Bridgeport and my CNC Bridgeport...
Have fun, be safe, don't damage the machine, and don't get hurt~!
Go slow, and think ahead.
Best,
Weyland
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Oh yeah.. I forgot...
I would certainly recommend *AGAINST* putting them on casters. Waaaayyyyyyyyyy too top heavy. I don't recall exactly, but I think the head/ram/turret assembly weigh about 1000 lbs. alone.
If you *HAD* to do it, I would make the caster's table no less than 5 foot square.
Best,
Weyland
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Thanks... I will see how it goes and so on.
As far as that tapped hole for a eyebolt, do you know what is the threading? I wish I took the manual with me.
i
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On Apr 14, 11:31 pm, Ignoramus18706 <ignoramus18...@NOSPAM. 18706.invalid> wrote:> As far as that tapped hole for a eyebolt, do you know what is the

5/8-11
I have to admit to having my mouth shut by those pics TMT posted from the drop-box. VERY nice job done, there. I still stand by my recommendation against it until I hear what that man's experiences have been with moving it with regards to its wanting to tip or not. My experience is that they like to tip. They're actually pretty easy to rock, even when on the floor.
Best,
Weyland
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I move a 6 foot tall bandsaw periodically that is on casters. I treat moving it like the serious undertaking that it is. Clear a path, sweep the floor, go slow, after all how fast do you need to travel the typical 10' or less?
As far as tippness of the bridgeport, I have a feeling side to side is the worst, tipping backwards likely isn't as bad, not sure about forwards. The wheels will extend the foot print which helps stability.
http://wess.freeshell.org/usenet/rec.crafts.metalworking/DSC02983_vga.jpg
Shows a base w/o head and turret at a fairly steep angle.
It would be interesting to know just were the center of gravity is though the normal range of knee and Y axis positions to determine just how tippy one is and the effects on stability of increasing the footprint.
I don't suppose anyone has solid modeled a bridgeport?
Wes
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On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 22:31:06 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,

WCS 1: You're pushing the heavy beastie along on the castered cart and it hits a cement expansion seam/bolt/rock/2x4/kid's toy. The casters catch, the cart stops, and the weight of the mill tilts onto its front legs, skidding the cart out the back with the mill's full weight or force against it. It quickly either breaks dozens of bones in your feet and ankles OR takes both your feet off at the ankles. There'll be no more standing and milling for _you_, son.
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I know that the ram, turret, and ram adaptor minus the head weighs 395 if we can trust the load meter on the shop crane we used to pull it.
Wes
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Ignoramus18706 wrote:

I have shipped a number of mills and I have found the best way to set them up is to lag a couple of 4 x 4 oak runners crosswise to the mill. You can easily move the mill with a pallet jack with no problem of it tipping over in any direction. I would lower the knee and rotate the head to the level of the table to lower the center of gravity.
If you do get a forklift, just get a couple of pieces of wood on the forks and you can pick it up with the forks on either side of the column under the dovetail overarm. Since it is hanging rather than sitting on the base it will not tip.
John
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On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:25:52 -0500, Ignoramus18706

Plan on renting the forklift a little longer than you need. Spend some time operating it before trying to lift the mill. You want to be able to move very slowly and smoothly. If there are any inclines make sure the forklift is always on the downhill side. When lifting, tilt the forks toward the forklift so the mill doesn't slide off. Make sure your trailer and forklift are on level ground when unloading, even if you have to drive the mill with the forklift to its destination. Keep the mill as close to the ground as possible. Use spotters on each side.
I just move a mill. I used 2 2x6 boards as runners from front to back. I rolled it on 3/4 inch galavanized pipe. Curve the bottom of the boards so it will roll onto the pipe easier. Go over to Farm & Fleet and get their 60" pry bar ($20, made in India). The lifting end looks like a chisel. It's flat on one side, angled on the other. Use 2x4's or 4x4's for a fulcrum point. You can then add/remove boards front/back to gradually raise/lower the mill.
Wayne D.
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On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:25:52 -0500, Ignoramus18706

He should help you secure it while he's there. Request that!

Securely, front to back and side to side with multiple tiedowns, straps, chains, or thick ropes.
Take 4 or 5 new or used studs with you. It's usually fairly easy to put 2x4s around the bottom to secure the base from moving. Then tie down the top from every angle.

The road goes below the axle, everything else goes on top, please. ;) Oh, you meant ahead or behind the axle along the moving axis, didn't you? I always put the heaviest item directly over the axle and toss in lighter stuff in the front to optimize the tongue weight for the trailer.

Possible but doubtful due to the top-heavy nature of the mill. The easiest way to move semi-heavy machinery is to skid it. Either put a pair of 4x4s under it and bolt 2x4 braces on, with eyebolts for dragging it, or mount it to a pallet. A winch or comealong will drag it on/off the trailer.
eyebolt here and below | _ | _ rounded tips help sliding onto trailer | | v | | =======o======= 2x4 | ----------- | || || || mill || || here || || (top view)|| || || || || || || | ----------- | =======o======= 2x4 |_| |_| 4x4 4x4

If you must, build a super-low caster cart out of sturdy angle iron which will raise it only 1/4" off the cement by offsetting the casters with Z brackets. Use adjusters so you can raise or lower the casters, making the cart sit on the ground when not being moved. See picture for a lightweight version of mobile bases used on lighter weight woodworking machinery. http://www.grizzly.com/products/g7315
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Ignoramus18706 wrote:

A portable 2-ton gantry would work nicely here.

One thing is a heavy ratcheting strap up and over the top of the mill and down the other side. Also one trying to pull it forward and a 3rd trying to pull it back.

Uh, on the trailer bed?

Not if your bed wood is sound.

Hmm. Maybe, but GO REAL SLOW.

NO!!! NO!!! Don't go there, Igor! A mill is supposed to be continuously supported all around its base. Make some machinery moving skates, then it's real easy.

Those are for leveling prior to grouting in.

I bucked a 2-ton engine hoist once when I didn't have the legs fully extended, lifting a Bridgie. Also once I strapped the mill down to a flatbed over the knee, which gave somewhat so the mill got loose. I looked in the rearview mirror and the mill was rocking side to side about 12". After I got pulled over and changed my shorts, I strapped it down solidly over the ram like I wrote above and should have done.
Here's a picture of a mill dolly which I made which rolls over engine hoist legs:
http://www.tinyisland.com/images/mill03.jpg
Good luck, go slow.
GWE
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Nope... And I sold a bunch of bridgeport tooling in the last few months. Let's see:
- Set of Bridgeport marked R8 collets - 6" vise - Several swivel tables (though I still have one).
The mill comes with one collet. I also have a R8 to J33 adapter and a hand 3/4" chuck for J33 taper (bet I cannot mill with it)
I do have a few little end mills. Procuring a box or two of used endmills is my least worry. The vise and tool holder is an open question, but discount_machine sells a bunch of such things, and they are not too far from me (10 miles), I might just visit them to save on shipping. They have kurt style vises, collets, chucks etc.
Again, I have not yet decided whether to keep this mill.

OK
OK
OK

Yep.
Yep
Yes, I have a plan for this actually.

do you know what thread?

yes
I think that it would reduce friction.

Agreed.
Yes. I am glad that my idea makes sense to you.

Yes. Absolutely. I think that I will bring the mill on Tue-Wed, and perhaps unload it on the weekend.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/search?group=rec.crafts.metalworking&q=bridgeport+mobile+base
Will do, already started reading.

Looks very nice.

Thanks for good words. TMT>..
i

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Ignoramus18706 wrote:

Iggy
Where's discount machine? If it's close to you it'll be almost as close to me!
Thanks Paul
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I think that they are in St Charles.
i
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Ignoramus18706 writes:

No, you have an ancient M-head with a small table (you sure you want that?). Does not weigh that much. Gotta be less than 2000.
My experience:
http://www.truetex.com/movebpt.htm
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I am not sure, do you know anything about that head and why it is not as desirable?

Makes sense, thanks Richard.
i
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