I have the same crimpers. The stripe pattern on the terminal barrel indicates how many crimps to make. I suspect the dies that Spehro is describing make the required number of crimps in one shot.
Ned Simmons
Yes, one shot.
BTW, here's an interesting product that might help-- I have not seen these before- they look like a sort of collet terminal:
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
The hammer type crimper is on that page as well. I'm not fond of them myself at least when used with a hammer. You never know when you've got enough crimp or to much. I'm sure they'd work ok in a press.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX
I made one that works great in my treadle hammer (60 pound hammer).
Steve
I would say that's not cold-flowing - if you went back in one minute they'd be just a loose as a day later.
The screw can muster enough force to permantly deform the lead tin, as soon as you tighten it down.
This is different than what, for example, teflon does under a screw, which is more of a long term creep effect.
Granted we are discussing semantics here, but there *are* metals like indium for example, that really do cold-flow. I can do indium seal flange bolts up tight to torque one night, and the next night they really are slack again. And it takes that long for it to relax.
My point is that there is no need to perform those western electric 'wrap both way' splices, and no need to do the 'stick the wire though the tube socket lug and wrap it around five times,' before soldering. Sure they taught that, but if you do it the simple way the electronics are every bit as robust and a heck of a lot easier to build and repair.
This from somebody who's been inside more halicrafters radios than he cares to admit.
Jim
When working for Schlumberger, we had a tool chest tower of drawers - full of handles of all sizes and the rest were dies for specific wire... When dealing in high rel and very high current lugs items like this are required.
Lower level of requirements lend lesser quality of crimps.
Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
Two options:
pete
More likely due to corrosion. I've experienced such a phenomenon on a microphone input, which had started acting as a detector and sending a radio station to the amplifier. "Honest, Mr. Madsen, I didn't have a radio on while I was running the sound system."
I was vindicated when I found the corroded connection.
Harold
According to Ignoramus25589 :
0 (1-0) gauge uses the larger of the two AMP hydraulic crimp heads, and the smallest set of dies to fit it. (Total range -- 1-0 though 4-0)Hmm 1 gauge? The smaller of the two AMP hydraulic crimp heads covers #8, #6, #4, and #2. I don't know of one for #1 at all. Are you sure that it exists?
The larger head is either powered by a hand pumped (or foot pumped hydraulic system capable of 10,000 PSI, like the porta-power units, or by an electrically powered pump which cycles to maximum pressure and then releases automatically.
The smaller head can be powered by the same, or is available with a hand-operated pump built in.
It depends on how long you watch eBay, waiting for what you want. I have (hydraulic) crimpers and dies for #8 through 3-0, and am still waiting for the 4-0 dies to show up. I also have the purely mechanical crimpers for similar terminals down through #26 or #28 IIRC.
Acceptable to whom? They would certainly not qualify for mil-spec work. (I'm assuming that you're talking about the PIDG style crimp terminals, which have a collar which grips the insulation.)
If you have a hydraulic press, and can develop around 31,000 pounds (I think) with it, you could make holders and guides for the dies for the AMP for up to the 4-0 terminals. Then, all you would need to find on eBay is the dies themselves.
With the sizes which you are talking about, I think that you will need two crimp heads, to cover your stated requirements -- assuming that you can find dies for #1 wire terminals. AMP does not list them for the crimpers which I have, at least.
If you already have a porta-power, you can use that to drive the heads.
Here is an example of the hand-held one for the smaller dies (#8-#2), though it it in an eBay "store" and is *way* over what I paid. Auction number: 7548679099. The second photo will show you what a pair of the dies looks like. The red tape around one of the handles is intended to show that it is loaded with dies for #8 (or #2, which have the same color). #6 is blue, and #4 is yellow.
I've gotten similar crimpers for as little as $15.00 at a hamfest -- with one set of dies in it.
AHA -- here is a much more reasonable one which was missed by my first quick search:
7553590509And that one is even the later model of the hand-pumped crimper. Still the wrong dies for your application. It has the #6, and you need the #2 (the closest to #1 that I know of). This one is at only $25.00 with about 11+ hours to go as I post.
Good Luck, DoN.
DoN, thanks for the first part of your post. I have a better idea now.
Very nice. I would like to know if these dies are easy to find. I may bid a small amount for that item...
i
Some are easier than others, though it usually takes a while to find the particular ones which you are looking for. I've been looking for the 4-0 set for a few years now. The smaller dies (#8-#2) are somewhat easier to find, as are the crimpers for them.
I wound up bidding on (and winning) a second smaller hydraulic crimper, just to get several sizes of dies to complete my set.
Come to think of it -- I believe that I have spares of some of the dies -- but it is too late to go down and check that right now.
I don't know whether you looked at the first one that I found, but they wanted a buy-it-now of $750.00 for that one. :-) *Way* out of reach. :-)
Good Luck, DoN.
| > 7553590509 | >
| > And that one is even the later model of the hand-pumped crimper. Still | > the wrong dies for your application. It has the #6, and you need the #2 | > (the closest to #1 that I know of). This one is at only $25.00 with | > about 11+ hours to go as I post. | | Very nice. I would like to know if these dies are easy to find. I may | bid a small amount for that item...
I use this tool all the time at work. Very cool tool, but you need a set of dies to go with it. Ours were certified for aerospace work, and as such had to be certified with the dies serialized to go with it and all that. You'll learn soon that you must retract the ram completely before you open it up, and don't forget to put the pin in before you start pumping, or you will need a big press to get it apart again. Since there's not anything holding the wire in the terminal while you pump, you have to keep an eye on it despite needing full torque from both arms while pumping.
I definitely do not have that kind of money to spend on crimpers!!!
If I win that auction, I will look for #2 or #1 dies...
i
Well, it IS a deprecatory term, not of the people at large, but of their business culture and the quality of their metals.
I deal directly a LOT with nationalist Chinese in my business. (fireworks) I don't think of myself as much of a bigot (we all have some tendency to be socio-centric), but find a lot of cultural and 'moral' aspects of their business-doings repugnant. They are - by practice and approval of their culture - cheap, deliberately averse to quality, and dishonest. It shows in everything they make, and every relationship they establish with us here.
So, yeah.... I guess what I'm saying is my opinion boils over into my description of the metal.
Ok... I'll try to force my muscle-memory into typing Chinalloy instead.
LLoyd
Aw, Jim! I'm not parrotting some mantra I heard a few times. I was a pro in electronics for decades until I retired, then started a new business.
A solder joint may start out stronger than the wire -- if you do some 'overlap' as you cite. (But that's not a compact joint.) But solder strength deteriorates with age and mechanical and thermal cycling.
If you don't provide a mechanical joint before soldering you are deliberately inviting a failure down the road. Since I've seen many thousands of such failures, that's not speculation on my part.
LLoyd
I've been a pro the business too, for decades. Still am in fact. And I've never seen solder joints simply deteriorate over time for no reason. If exposed to weather or chemicals, yes. But then even a triple wrapped tube socket will come undone if you leave it out in the rain for a few years.
Jim
Let's be mindful of one thing. There is a concept called "fundamental attribution error". It is a mistake of attributing observed behavior to some inner qualities of an individual, rather than mere circumstances. These Chinese people may be acting the way they act, because of simple economic incentives around them.
Sort of like car mechanics. An honest car mechanic would probably not stay in business very long. So, they act like scum, and yet if they go into another line of business, they might suddenly change into honest, upstanding businessmen.
The opposite example is selling stuff on ebay. Given their system of incentives, the only sensible approach to being an ebay seller is to be painfully honest. Doing otherwise is simply very expensive.
The above, by the way, in no way reflects on the value of stereotyping. My life experience has created a stereotype of a car mechanic as a dishonest, untrustworthy person, and of "home contractors" as childish, irresponsible people. I am not going to give up that stereotype just because some people dislike stereotyping.
I am not going to spend my life looking for an "honest car mechanic", I have better things to do with my time, hence I fix my truck myself whenever I can.
I do not have much experience with Chinese businessmen (and am not eager to obtain such experience). But, if I had experience that led me to stereotyping, I would have no qualms about having formed stereotypes.
i
But I didn't say, "for no reason". A solder joint never exposed to heat, oxidation, or mechanical stress will last virtually forever. That's not the case with joints in most 'normal' physical environments.
A tour through the insides of an old BC-458 will give you a good look at how well soldering can be done for _rugged_ use. An old "Silvertone" Sears TV will show you the opposing case study.
LLoyd
Agreed that the term 'work hardening' (in a metallurgy sense) was ill used. Fatigue would be a better term.
What I meant was that it loses it's ductility, fatigues (crystallizes) under flexure, and loses it's integrity to such an extent that the joint fails mechanically (as well as electrically).
The composition of the particular solder used has a lot to do with this. High lead solders fatigue more than high tin solders. The addition of some silver can increase the ductility.
Many solder joints can be disconnected by merely flexing them a few times. Add heavy components, ill mounted and free to move around (including the cables themselves), and the joints will likely fail due to fatigue. That's the reason for the strong mechanical mounting of all components including the cables ... it relieves the sensitive solder joint of much of this strain, flexure, and vibration.
As stated, the much less massive components now used, as well as PC Boards and other modern mounting techniques, have greatly reduced the need for such strong mechanical mounting. It was the norm for most good soldering circa W.W.-II however.
Dan Mitchell ============
There is probably something cultural there, because it works in both China and Taiwan. Quality is more a fixed attribute in the US, Japan, Canada, Germany etc. In China or Taiwan, if you negotiate the price of a widget down from $50 to $40, they'll tend to find a way to build you a crummy $40 widget, not sell you their $50 widget for $40.
Also, they are used to living with defects in their everyday life- in clothing, appliances and that sort of thing. A button that needs to be resewn, a slight color mis-match, a thread out of place, a paint blemish are not big deals. They have to be taught that it *is* a big deal to us. A guy making a salary of $150 per *month* thinks he's a hero if he saves a couple of dollars on a reel of 10,000 components, for example. He doesn't necessarily realize that a few more failures at our end at $20-$100 per hour will blow away any savings many times over. They also deal with customers in places like India, where they can accept 15% or 20% DOA product (really) at a sufficiently low price, because it's so cheap to have someone go through it all.
For them, it's sort of like us dealing with a really fussy Swiss (say) customer who's always complaining about paint finish and other irrelevant (you might think) details on the stuff you manufacture, and threatening to send the whole shipment back because of few smudges or whatever. But he pays well, so you put up with it and try to give him what he demands.
It's been said that 20% of people are inherently dishonest, 20% are intrinsically honest, and the rest go either way depending on circumstance.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
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