Finally a gloat for me

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 05:51:36 -0700, AIOE wrote: ...


Ordinarily you would use drill bits with MT2 shank, rather than collets with MT2 shank. Visually similar to those at, eg, <
http://www.patented-antiques.com/images/cyntools/XX-c-tools-on/c-drilltools/PA010165.JPG
That picture probably has both MT2 and MT1 bits; use an MT2-to-MT1 adapter for latter. Pictured at eg <http://cuttingtools.en.alibaba.com/viewimg/photo/265155899/morse_taper_sleeve_adapter.jpg.html

The belt-tensioning handle should move much more freely, possibly simplifying lubrication, if you take off the back belt. After you loosen the "motor adjusting knobs" (the thumb screws) push the motor forward, take off the belts, push motor in and out, lube the slides, from inside and outside the head, etc. Rather than using the tensioning handle to tighten the belts after changing speeds, on my drill press I use a small crowbar between the motor and the back of the drill press head to hold tension while I tighten the two knobs.
--
jiw

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James Waldby wrote:

<
http://www.patented-antiques.com/images/cyntools/XX-c-tools-on/c-drilltools/PA010165.JPG
http://cuttingtools.en.alibaba.com/viewimg/photo/265155899/morse_taper_sleeve_adapter.jpg.html
Ah, thanks James, that makes a lot more sense now. It looks like there will be some new drill bits in my future, and with fancy ends, to boot!
Jon
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If it really is like the HF press there should be a set screw on BOTH sides of the drill press that needs to be loosened. I also use a box end wrench as a cheater bar on the tightening handle.
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Pete Snell wrote:

I put a small floodlight in my drillpress so that all the light goes down to the work, and not into my eyes.
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On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 05:51:36 -0700, "AIOE"

That was pretty nearly a Gunner/Iggy deal. Very very well done!!
"First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost
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Sadly, all new (even used) tools have a honeymoon expiration date. Just like a new gal, you will soon become satiated and bored, and be looking for bigger/better. Enjoy for as long as it lasts. The upside is that this is a repeatable experience that is not nearly as costly as the real honeymoon repeat scenario, and you can go out and do it again next week, and not be in the doghouse with SWMBO all the time. Or, as in the case of some of them, one strike and YER OUT! Sometimes unconscious for many minutes. ;-) And then you wake up to a lawyer.
Steve
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.
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That's not likely to work for you, unless the press is an unusual one, or you make some changes to it.
Most of those use tanged tapers. To use collets, you'll need to cobble up a drawbar setup. It might not be too hard to do, since some presses have bored spindles.
LLoyd
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Collets aren't very useful in a drill press spindle. The taper in the spindle is meant to accept drills with tapers on the shanks, or arbors to mount chucks.
When you spot deals on drills with morse taper shanks, buy them for drill press and lathe use. Many made in the USA by quality makers will probably never completely wear out in your lifetime.
A 5/8" chuck will probably take care of most of your needs for drilling, except for very small drills.
You might want to get a couple of Morse-to-Jacobs taper arbors (with tangs, for removal) in the event you might need to use a very small chuck in the future.
Twist drills aren't supposed to slip in chucks, ever. Tightening the drill chuck in all 3 positions should eliminate any slippage.. if not, the chuck is probably defective or just poorly made, time to get a good quality chuck. Cleaning and lubrication may help, but a quality chuck in good condition should give the best performance and least amount of aggravation.
For large drills that are likely to grab in thin workpieces, 3 flats can be ground on the shanks with a Dremel or other suitable method. For large drills that are only used in thin work, the drill points can be reground with more point angle.
When using old drills that may have burrs on the shanks, always remove the burrs with a file, just enough to restore the surface. Badly damaged morse tapers (and arbors) should be avoided unless the taper can be reground.
Nevermind using water as a lubricant. A reasonably good cutting lubricant is the best choice. Not only is the drilling going to provide faster, easier and better results.. your sharp drills will stay sharp longer. There's not much point in trying to use dull drills, they'll most likely just result in damage to the drill press.
--
WB
.........


"AIOE" < snipped-for-privacy@yahSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
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Wild_Bill wrote:

Ah, thanks Bill, that is all good to know. I will yield to consensus and pick up some proper lubricant for drilling adventures.
I never knew about tightening up the chuck in all three places - thanks a TON for that one!
Jon
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    O.K. It is similar to a Taiwanese drill press which I got for about $150.00 back around 1975/76 or so -- except that mine is floor standing.
    Mine now has a nice Jacobs keyless chuck (similar to the Albrecht ones in design and function), and the 5/8" chuck which came with it stays within reach in case I really need it.

    O.K.
    Good -- and can run slow enough for your 1" drill bits.

    I've simply put one of the monkey's fist style Compact Fluorescents in it. That is short enough so it does not extend out where it is easily broken, but casts lots of light without heating the housing.

    What you need is a Morse Taper "key" -- a tapered wedge which is put in one side and hit with a hammer to knock out the arbor or bit.
    Note that you can get drill bits with direct MT-2 shanks up to 1" size, so you don't need the collets (which don't work as well in that as in a milling spindle, because there is no provision for a drawbar).

    It usually has a fairly lose link to the motor mount plate. And it won't go very far with the belt in place and tight. Loosen the clamp screws (one on either side of the back of the casting), and you should be able to move the handle towards the back, which will pull the motor towards the casting -- as long as there is room for it to travel. It looks as though the motor mount plate is almost in contact with casting, which suggests that a belt is too short, or it is on the wrong step.
    IIRC, there are five steps on the spindle pulley and the idler, and only four on the motor pulley, and you want the motor belt to be at the same level on both ends. If someone replaced the motor, and the motor pulley is mounted too low, the proper pulley steps won't line up.
    There should be a map of belt settings inside the belt cover giving more detail than the front label does.
    Once you get the rear belt off you *should* be able to move the lever towards the motor, moving the motor back away from the casting. When you have it as far as you can get it, put some drops of oil on the two round rods which the motor mount slides in the casting on, then work it back and forth a few cycles to clean whatever grunge is on the rods.
    Then, look for a V-belt the right length -- perhaps an inch longer than what you have in there at present.
    Note that some speeds can result in the idler pulley rubbing against the belt safety cover. I found the best way to fix that with mine is to punch new holes in the bottom of the cover where the two screws attach it to the casting, and the pivot rod for the idler goes into the casting so the belt housing can be moved a bit more towards the feed lever side of the casting and not rub.

    Yes -- and get your 1" drill bit with a MT-2 shank instead of a Silver & Demming reduced shank.
    Only one choice -- MSC #01520642 -- import -- black oxide finish, 118 degree point angle. $26.75 ea (get at least two, so if you dull it part way through, you aren't stuck with nothing to do until you sharpen it.
    If you had a MT-3 spindle (neither do I, except in the lathe tailstock) you would have 17 choices in the same size drill bit.
    Hmm ... does your new drill press have enough stroke to drill through both sides in one setup? That would save you some trouble with the dowel fixturing. Put some 2x4 under it so you don't drill into the table. Mine still has no "oops" holes in the table. :-)
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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DoN. Nichols wrote:

Hi Don, and thanks, I appreciate it. The new press has a respectable 3-3/8" plunge, which is considerably longer than my last press, and you bring up a Very Important Point that has an effect on the drilling operation for my current project.
First, I may end up using 2-1/2" square steel tubing instead of 3" (for a number of benefits), which would entail switching over to a 3/4" hole (instead of a 1" hole).
The new press obviously has the plunge reach to push the bit through both sides of 2-1/2" square tube, but will that the right procedure?
I will obviously spot drill one side of the tubing, and start drilling through that side, but then if I continue on through the tubing to drill out the other side, the bit will be starting in flat "un-spotted/un-punched" metal.
My concern is that the bit will wander, but perhaps the size of the bit (3/4") means it is stiff enough to resist skating. Also, perhaps the top hole will serve as a drill bushing and keep the bit aligned all the way through.
It would most certainly make my work a lot easier, more than twice as easy, actually, and even a little more, since it would eliminate the second spotting procedure for the other side.
Thank you for bringing this up,
Jon
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    [ ... ]

    O.K.
    I believe so. It will generate less position error than having to start a second hole on the other side.

    The "bushing effect" from the top hole will make up for a lot with a bit that size.
    The first bit in MSC of that size is #01520485 at $19.33 (Smaller gets cheaper fast.) There are 18 bits in the web page, ranging up to $324.08 as one of the "Non Catalog Items". None of them are described as split point, and the illustrations are not clear enough to let me tell from them.
    If you could get one with a split point, you would not have any problems with it walking. I've even drilled a 1/16" hole in a 1/4" rod supporting a bearing on my garage door track -- using a hand held electric drill, and I had no problems with it walking without center punching beforehand.

    I would say that you can get away with it, because the drill is being supported less than 2-1/2" from the drill point. Even if the quill has a lot of slop in the casting the first hole will serve as a one-shot bushing while you start the second side hole.
    Others have mentioned vises. I didn't because your original fixture would prevent it being spun. And with that long a workpiece, putting the side of the workpiece against the left hand side of the column will control the spinning anyway. (It won't control the workpiece lifting as the bit breaks through, however.) So if you can get a lever operating drill press vise of reasonable size, and bolt that down to the table, you should be fine. (Remember to lock the table pivot under the table since yours, like mine, is a round table which can spin in its mount if not clamped.)
    For a nice lever-operating vise, take a look at MSC # 09145566.
    There are several sizes, and this one looks as though it will work well for your 2-1/2" square steel tubing. It has a throat depth of 1-13/16" which should be plenty. (It is similar to an old one with a Craftsman name which I picked up at a metalworking club meeting about a year ago and which is my favorite drill press vise. This one would be better in that it has more choices for clamping it to the table.
    The price, however, is perhaps enough to send you elsewhere:
        $283.94
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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DoN. Nichols wrote:

Thanks Don, I appreciate it. I found a suitably-sized MT2-shanked bit on ebay, so we'll have to see how it's going to work out. Fortunately the application isn't _too_ demanding of precision, so I'll know after a few test pokes if it's going to work.

Aye, as much as I'd like to furnish my new tool with some well-needed accessories, I'm relegated to cobbling up jigs for the time being, at least as far as it is reasonably practical. Along those lines, I'm thinking of using two sections of tubing (or very sturdy angle stock) bolted securely to the table, leaving a channel between them to slide the long tubing to be drilled through.
The long section to be drilled will already be scribed and punched, and I'll tap it with a hammer from either end as required to encourage it into the correct position. I'll come up with some means to secure it from rising up off of the table in order to prevent a surprise when the bit pushes out of it's hole.
Thanks again,
Jon
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    [ ... ]

    O.K. And you should still try the UniBit step drill in the material. I think that you'll like how it behaves. (And your work won't be trying to climb the spiral when it breaks through.)

    [ ... ]

    [ ... ]

    O.K. For that, make an extra bolt through one of the guide pipes, and a strap of steel to pivot over the workpiece to keep it from lifting. Better if you have two about equidistant on either side of the drill bit. And remember the sacrificial length of 2x4 under the workpiece -- unless you carefully position the table so the center hole will pass the drill bit. It would be a shame to drill dings into a drill press table which has lasted unscarred this many years (based on its appearance and its similarity to my 1975/76 one). :-)
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

People always give me strange looks when they see a small pile of scrap wood under my drill press. They also laugh when they find out that I clean and wax new tools to protect them.
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On 4/28/2010 12:13 AM, Jon Danniken wrote:

drill a pilot hole with a smaller drill first say 5/16 or 3/8 right through.Then use the 3/4 to finish to the correct size. If the 3/4 drill chatters on entry to the piloy hole get asmall piece of heavy cloth ,like denim from old jeans and put it over the hole double thick ness then drill the hole.
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    [ ... ]

    Another trick to keep it from chattering -- works with countersinks as well -- is to bring the tip into contact with the workpiece with the motor turned off, apply a reasonable pressure, and flip on the switch. This keeps it from getting room to bounce around before it bites.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

That is one of the times a footswitch comes in handy. :)
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Thanks Don for the tip re countersinks - I have had grave trouble with the things chattering, even after locking the table down - always looked crap with the chatter marks in the metal - will give it a try. (found it works better with the lowest speed I can get - possible similar to what you were describing?) Usually do them by hand to improve the finish, but a bit tedious (and uneven) Countersinks? - seems to be two types, the "usual" hardware store/ woodworking types with multiple flutes, and the ones with but a single shaped and sharp hole in them - they seem to go a bit better, but only marginally. Can you explain why they are different? - is it different applications, or for different metals?...
Andrew VK3BFA.
(still learning, so much to do, so little time...)
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    Related. My trick makes sure that when they start, they are already in contact through the slowest part of the speed-up cycle. If you start them in firm contact, they will usually stay in firm contact, unless the workpiece has a lot of flexibility.
    [ ... ]

    There are actually more than that. The wood ones are usually a pair of flutes 180 degrees apart. And they may be available in different included angles, depending on the availability of screws with similar angles.
    The metalworking ones come in quite a few styles, and in included angles of at least 82 degrees, 90 degrees, and 100 degrees. The 100 degrees is for relatively thin sheet metal so the entire length of the head can be within the metal to be mounted.
    Aside from the different angles, they also come with two flutes, three flutes, six (irregularly space) flutes (made by Severance), and supposed to minimize chatter -- better than equally spaced flutes, but still chatter under certain circumstances. Start them as I described above and they are pretty good. Back away quickly when deep enough so they don't get a chance to start chatter. If you see a six fluted countersink, look carefully at the end, and you will see that some flutes are closer together than others, and you will likely see the name "Severance" on the side of the bit -- though I think that the patent has expired, and others are now making them as well.
    Then there are the M. A. Ford single-flute ones which seem to be quite good at not chattering if started well.
    And the ones with the angled hole in a single face are also pretty good. They are harder to resharpen. There is a special fixture for resharpening the M.A. Ford ones.
    Also -- there are spotting drills (single flute going to center, full cone) used for making a starting point for a drilled hole working from either a center punch or crossed scribe lines. These typically have the shank the same diameter as the cutting end and are short so they are stiff and won't deflect easily.
    And -- there are the combination drill/countersink (double ended, 60 degree countersink with a very small very short drill in the end, used for drilling center holes for use when turning between centers on a lathe. These are often used in place of spotting drills, but are not quite as nice.
    Oh yes -- then there are the Micro-Stop countersinks (usually 100 degree angle for metal to be riveted as skin in aircraft building). The countersink has a pilot on one end for a specific size hole to guide it in and minimize chatter, and a 1/4-28 male thread on the other end which screws into a shaft in bearings in a cage which can be adjusted in 0.001" increments to control the depth of the countersink. You can use these in a drill press, or in an electric or air powered drill. Very nice for consistent countersink depth if you are doing many. The depth stop on the drill press is usually not precise enough for this kind of control.
    Unless you really *need* these, don't buy them new. But you can often get the adjustable cage and a number of the countersink bits (along with facing bits to finish the already set rivet flush with the surface) in a lot on eBay.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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