I've ended up with ten packages of 100 each RAMSET 9150 3/8 threaded studs
(these are pointy on one end for driving into concrete with an explosive
charge) - I figure these might be of use to somebody on this NG - as best I
can figure out, these things sell for $35 and some change per box, so if
someone wants all ten boxes for half of that (e.g. $175 total, postage
included), or can offer an interesting trade, please drop me a note - these
could be useful in anchoring things like an air line or electrical conduit
to your concrete floor/wall. This link will show you a picture of one
threads are 3/8X 16, shank is 0.205 inch. If you would like less than ten
boxes, drop me a note as well, I'm sure we can work something out
I used to be Ramset's research engineer in an earlier life when they were
still owned by Olin/Winchester. IF I remember correctly, 3/8" threaded
studs were originally used in the free-flite Jobmaster and Super-Power
Jobmaster tools wherein the powder charge acts directly on the fastener.
Free-flite tools were supplanted by 'low velocity' tools wherein the
propellant gasses drive a steel piston whose kinetic energy, in turn, drives
the fastener. Currently, in order to use those studs you would either have
to find one of the Jobmasters in safe working condition (not recommended for
the DIY'er) or one of these
MD380 was apparently designed specifically for HVAC (installing
sprinkler systems) but apparently is also no longer produced (came and went
long after my tenure).
Incidentally, the picture on the URL page you cite appears to depict a 1/4"
threaded stud with a plastic cap to fit a 3/8" capacity tool. I believe
this page shows a correct picture for a #9150 stud
actually looks like the fasteners you have ?
A small quibble is that the erroneous terminology "explosive charge" is
really a propellant charge (gunpowder - burns rapidly, doesn't 'explode')
which is contained in a metallic blank that is supplied and loaded
separately from the fastener, hence the preferred terminology of powder
actuated tool. However, it is also true that the tiny priming charge in the
blank that ignites the propellant is classed as an 'explosive'.
Of possible interest to the metalworking group is that, while these driven
studs were made of essentially plain carbon steel, their small size allows
them to be quenched rapidly enough to be heat treated by the austempering
process (as opposed to quench + temper) to extremely high strength/hardness
levels comparable to the strongest maraging superalloys, yet retain such a
degree of toughness (cracking resistance) that they can withstand being bent
into a pretzel in the most unfavorable circumstance of encountering a piece
of hard aggregate in concrete.
Tell me about it! I tried one of the piston-actuated tools on what I
believe to be
some of the hardest concrete in the world (my basement) and bent a number of
studs into pretzels, with huge explosions of spalled-off concrete flying all
over the place. I only got one out of a dozen or so studs to hold well
to hold it's own weight. I eventually gave up on the technique, fearing
eventually get hurt. I went back to laborious drilling and lead anchors.
Been there, and even with the anti spalling rubber cone on the
muzzle of the tool, you end up with some zinging come-backers. And
this was with a "Low powered" indirect Remington using .22 #4's.
Before giving up on this one Condo Garage ceiling slab I was about
ready to try a circle of plywood with a hole for the barrel...
It's the aggregate - some concrete used flint and other extra hard
stone in the mix. The PAT nails are fantastic on new construction,
where the concrete hasn't had a chance to set up. But after 10-20-
40-plus years of cure time the stuff is up to some insane strength
rating. You are NOT going to get a PAT fastener to go through.
the threaded studs I have look like the link David provided below - I have
10 boxes of these things (and they do not have the propellant charge
attached) that would love to find a long term home
I imagine that you can drive them with a hammer smacking onto a steel bar by
dropping them into a 3/8 ID tube then putting the bar in and hitting with a
4 pound sledge - but I haven't tried this, and using the proper charge is
probably a whole lot easier
Flint? Merely flint? My Jasper laughs at your flint! It even
laughs at diamond! You can drill it with diamond, but it takes
forever. Carbide bounces off it, although I have to admit, I
don't have a Hilti or Bosch drill. I may have to rent one next
time the job comes up.
The PAT nails are fantastic on new construction,
This stuff was hard as anything I've ever seen when it was 15
years old. Now, it is nearly 30 years old, I have no idea if
that has made it any harder. I really doubt it. The concrete,
itself, is drilled fairly easy. but, as soon as the bit hits
that Jasper stuff, it's just like drilling gemstones.
For big through-holes, I discovered a air chisel with a home-made
extension pointed bit is pretty good. Still really slow going,
and best for the family to be gone for a weekend, but I've put
a couple holes for a sink drain and a fume hood/paint booth
exhaust through 6" of wall. You just keep the point moving,
and if a really stubborn bit of aggregate won't give, you just
blast all around it and it will pop out pretty soon. McPherson
strut pistons make great extended punches for the air chisel,
if you have a lathe to shape the end that goes into the tool.
Ive "shot" a shit load of conduit anchors over the years, most
entirely sucessfuly. However..these were all into good homogenious
concrete walls, mostly "standups". Same with electrical enclosures and
boxes. If I see a wall with big chunks of rock showing..I either get
out the drill and anchors or the drill and anchors and a sheet of 3/4"
plywood for a back plane if I putting up more than a couple gizmos.
When I had the burglary to my truck, I lost a Hilti gun..now Im stuck
with an elderly Remington "Hammer the Back of the Tool to make it go
Bang!" type power driver. Total bummer
"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster
Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
I wouldn't be too optimistic about that, not that I've ever tried it.
Sometime prior to my (very enjoyable) time at Ramset, there was produced a
special fastener with some sort of electrostatic paint coating aimed, IIRC,
at corrosion resistance in a chemical plant environment. What interested me
was that when you fired one of these fasteners thru structural steel plate,
the paint was scraped off from only the first 1/16-inch of the very tip of
the ogive point. The remainder of the paint on the ogive point was
completely intact, not even scraped, looking just like it came out of the
box. This suggested to me that, upon initial 1/16-inch of entry into the
plate, sufficient heat was generated from deformation and friction to cause
melting at the fastener-plate interface and that this minute amount of
melted metal actually provided a liquid lubrication during the rest of the
penetration process. We're talking microseconds here for the entire
penetration process and the heat had zilch time to conduct away from the
My point in all this is that driving with a hand-held hammer is an order of
magnitude (factor of 10) slower process and I suspect that the melting and
liquid lubrication effect would not occur, resulting in much greater
frictional resistance to penetration and consequently greater axial force in
the shank of the fastener, resulting in plastic column buckling of the
shank. Moreover, maintaining precise alignment of the fastener axis with
respect to the direction of the driving force during manual hammer driving
would be very problematical, again resulting in column buckling.
In any case, I would caution against any such experimentation without taking
extreme safety measures, as we did in our testing laboratories (I've got all
my fingers, toes, and eyeballs and no scars). PAT tools are designed with
appropriate safety shields and interlocks and the design prototypes are
thoroughly tested prior to market introduction. In my capacity as a
knowledgeable engineer, I was occasionally called upon to consult in
litigations; you wouldn't believe some of the unsafe things some people
apparently tried to do with these tools. I once saw an extremely strong
earlier model tool in which the brass blank propellant cartridge case was
completely vaporized and plated out over the interior surfaces of the tool;
no gunpowder charge did that. For such reasons, the industry practice at
the time was to limit sales and use of the tools to contractors employees
who had undergone a serious training course and were issued a trained
operator's ID card.