Gatling gun

According to posts in their forum, he does indeed sell upgraded plans for $30.00 to past blueprint purchasers. I've never dealt with him, but for a one man operation, his attention to customer satisfaction is extremely impressive.

Snarl

True, yet one can roughly double th' number of rounds fired per min. with a motor feed over hand cranked... if th' weapon is operating correctly.

Snarl

When I bought my plans originally, maybe 12 years ago, he sent me a letter saying "I'm almost done with the next version; if you don't mind waiting I'll send you the newer ones at no extra cost". So, what you describe isn't surprising. I'll buy the upgrade.

Dave

I take it you haven't really started on it? It'd be worth your while to peruse his forum as there's a few errors in th' plans (even newer ones) that are discussed. Might save ya some time and scrap.

I'm *really* leaning towards purchasing his Complete Materials Package.

Snarl

Well, I've made some scrap if that's what you mean.

Excellent, thank you.

That, to be honest, is the biggest hurdle. Maybe after I buy the 1927A1 I'll save the eBay toy fund money for the materials package. How much is it these days?

I'm not trying to be argumentative; just trying to illustrate how stupid the gun control laws are.

I could easily design a mechanical transmission, with governor, to both increase the speed of the hand crank as well as regulate it's rotational speed in order to provide a fairly smooth and constant rate of fire similar to that of an electric motor. Yet the entire system would still be powered by the hand crank. Does that mean it's still not an automatic weapon?

What if I attach an electric motor to the Gatling drive, and then use a hand-cranked electric generator to drive that? Technically, it's still powered by hand. I've just replaced the mechanical transmission (a shaft) between my hand and the operating mechanism with an electrical transmission. What about a hydraulic motor driven by a hand-pump?

It's kind of like shotgun barrel lengths: 18" = good; 17-15/16" = bad (or something like that; I don't bother trying to memorize the thousands of stupid rules on the books). Or the ridiculous "assault weapon bans" where the criteria for banning the weapon has to do with its cosmetic appearance.

These regulations (which are clearly in violation of Constitutional law) are arbitrary and capricious.

I don't think you are being argumentatitve, and we agree on the stupidity of gun control laws, apparently.

It would be functionally still a semi-auto, yes.

I dunno, why don't you try that, ask the feds, and we'll send you a cake with a file in it when it doesn't work? Why would you want to do something like that? Doesn't serve any useful purpose and has the real potential of giving some idiot an excuse to ban hand-cranked firearms.

Yes, of course.

Yes. But waving examples in the face of the anti's just gives them another target.

Heh. No, I was just thinking you'd be better off if you weren't too far into it yet as there's been some improvements since you bought those older plans

You're welcome. I spent way too much time droolin' over that site yesterday... was >< that close to gettin' out Mr. Credit card.

From his web page:

"Complete Materials Package

All raw materials necessary for building the RG-G Gatling gun are included, with the exception of parts for the carriage and yoke mount. All metals are high quality stock, with sizes selected as close to finished dimensions as possible. The brass is good quality mill finish, and the steel is cold finished with no scale or slag. Lengths allow material for finish cuts to clean. No machine work has been done. The package includes rifled barrel liners, ground firing pins, all hardware (screws, nuts, bushings, springs, bearings, gears, etc.), and an explanatory inventory list. With this package and our plans, you're ready to start building!

Price: $719.00 USD

(Includes S&H within the continental US)"

Rather steep, but all things considered, it's still very reasonable, to me anyway. YMMV. The deal maker may be those regulars who post in th' forum (who've been there, done that) assistance, plus his personal help, if needed.

The deal breaker may be legalities. Someone in here mentioned that they're perfectly legal as long they come to your property as plans, etc., and never, ever, leave it as a completed weapon. Guess I need to check into that further. What if you sell your property?

Snarl

You're preaching to th' choir .

Agreed. I guess I'm just thankul for th' loophole allowing us to build and play with one of these... if we want to.

Akin to th' landlord tennant acts around here, likely everywhere. A series of knee-jerk generated garbage that follows neither logic nor constituntional interpretations... depending on who one asks.

Personally, I'd rather make chips, then loud noises, over discussing political antics .

Snarl

Interesting delimna

Comes with all buildings and other improvements. Oh, don't mind that little machine in the basement :)

Of course, if it's a gun enthusiast, then it becomes a selling point.

I suspect the law says "Never leaves your possesion", i.e. take it with you when you move residences.

Yes it is, and I'm pretty sure that getting to th' bottom of it will cause an excedrin headache or two .

A $10-20k machine according to my research, yikes!

Therein lies another rub, woudn't that mean that you also sold th' weapon... which is illegal to do?

That would be *way* too reasonable.

But officer, this RV is my home... argh, where's that excedrin?

Snarl

"Dave Hinz" wrote> >

I'm *really* leaning towards purchasing his Complete Materials

The complete package is $719 Including shipping. In the plan set but not on the website are prices for partial material kits. I can't find that sheet at the moment but I think the brass kit was $130. The barrel liners are available from Brownells, but unless you're an FFL holder you won't save any $ over buying them from RG-G. I have a few bits of metal I can start on now and scrounging and dumpster diving can supply some and Speedy Metals has good service. I'll probably get enough to build two units. Materials cost isn't as bad as the excise tax hit when the guns are done or sold. 11% or about a grand apiece. OUCH!! Tom

>

Yup

I agree. But I'll qualify that and say 'some' gun laws are absurd.

Turning by hand, 600 rounds per minute or more is possible according to other builders and the designer. A motor besides being illegal might well exceed the guns capabilities. Remember this thing was designed in the

1860's. High speed (1000 RPM) wasn't in the cards then. The RG-G gun is esentially the same design.

I beilive that is correct.

transmission.

Technicaly its still hand cranked. But the ease that a switch or "trigger" could be installed would probably raise some eyebrows at ATF. I'd guess they would lock you up.

Still not a machinegun, but why? It's just adding complication. Or are you just tweaking the collective nose of the Feds?

Gotta draw the line somewhere.

"snip"

Or the ridiculous "assault weapon bans" where

appearance.

That one expired over a year ago. It was a stupid law and wasn't renewed.

It's not that clear to me. Tom

Just posing hypotheticals to expose the gray area and absurdities in the laws.

Why? What makes a shotgun magically evil at less than 18"? The problem isn't how the projectiles are dispersed, it's simply a matter of where they end up. Besides, it's well known that the practical effects of gun control laws are:

1. To disarm the general population.
2. To make lawful citizens into outlaws.
3. To "stack up" criminal charges against the accused so that prosecuters have greater plea bargain leverage.

Considering how many criminals use guns (particularly the most violent of criminals like drug dealers and gang members), it's quite clear that gun control laws do little to abate the criminal use of firearms.

It hasn't expired in California. (OK, technically, it's a different law, but the California law is very similar to the former federal law.)

As for it now being renewed, that may only be a temporary reprieve. President Bush, of all people, pledged to sign it back into law if passed by Congress. And you can bet that President Hillary will certainly resurrect it (as well as launch a slew of other anti-RKBA laws).

What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" is not clear to you?

- Michael

Why?

'Cause "they", whoever they might be, don't like it? Sounds to me like their problem. Gun laws *ARE* capricious. What I can't figure out is which part of "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." is unclear.

Not in California

Gunner, jonesing really bad for an STG-58

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

laska anti-gun control law set to go into effect this week

JUNEAU, Alaska A new anti-gun control law goes into effect in Alaska this week. It means handgun owners won't need permits to carry concealed weapons in the seven Alaska cities where they're still required. There also will be no more restrictions on keeping a firearm in a vehicle.

The new law will essentially bar municipalities from passing gun laws that are more restrictive than state law.

The National Rifle Association, which helped write the legislation, calls it state pre-emption, and Alaska will be the 44th state to have such a law on its books.

What the N-R-A wants to do is prevent cities from passing more restrictive laws in the future.

But Alaska police chiefs worry about no longer being able to enforce laws banning guns from public buildings, such as city halls.

city carry dueling gun laws

PERMITS: Legislature says Anchorage can't create stricter rules.

By ANNE AURAND Anchorage Daily News

Published: September 20, 2005 Last Modified: September 20, 2005 at 03:29 AM

Anyone legally allowed to own a handgun in Anchorage can carry it just about anywhere.

Carrying a concealed handgun used to be against the law without a special permit.

But the city stopped enforcing the permit requirement after the state passed a law in 2003 that said Alaskans no longer needed the permit. Concealed weapons are those hidden from view -- in a purse, under a coat, in the glove box.

However, the city's permit law remained on the books. Assemblyman Dick Traini wants to change what it says so the two laws match.

Since state law trumps the city's anyway, he said, it's just housekeeping.

Traini, who brags about his firearms collection, thinks permits are unnecessary anyway. He said he trusts people to meet the necessary requirements to carry a pistol -- being 21 and a U.S. citizen, being clear of any felony or domestic violence convictions. Those who wouldn't meet the requirements would buy guns if they wanted them anyway, he said, illegally, without a permit.

"The criminal element is never going to get a permit. The criminal element gets their guns because they're criminals. It doesn't matter how many laws you put on the books," Traini said.

Alaska Rep. Eric Croft, D-Anchorage, sponsored the 2003 anti-permit bill, citing at the time frustration with constant fine-tuning of state gun laws. Getting rid of required permits, he said, would also help gun owners in rural areas where handgun safety courses, a requirement for getting a concealed weapons permit, aren't always available.

Croft's law didn't change prohibitions against carrying firearms into state courtrooms or court buildings, other justice-related agencies, school yards, the grounds of private child care facilities, bars, domestic violence shelters or the private homes of people who don't give permission.

To make things more complicated, the Legislature passed another law this session barring the city from imposing tougher restrictions on gun ownership than the state does. That law goes into effect next month.

What does it all mean? Who has to let in people with guns? Depends who's talking.

For instance, city officials, including Traini, Police Chief Walt Monegan and Mayor Mark Begich, say it means a legal gun owner can carry a pistol into City Hall, or the Assembly chambers because the state law doesn't specifically ban municipal buildings.

State Rep. Mike Chenault, R-Kenai, who sponsored the bill restricting the city from passing tougher laws, disagrees.

It's no more strict for the city to prohibit firearms in a city building than it is for the state to ban them in a state building, such as a courthouse. The law leaves room for interpretation, he said.

Anchorage's Deputy Clerk Linda Heim thinks people should not be allowed to bring guns into City Hall. What if someone is mad at the mayor, the tax collector or the clerk, she said.

Traini and the city prosecutor were uncertain how the gun laws apply to private property, like stores or apartment buildings.

Mina Freeman, in the state troopers' concealed handgun permits department, said a private property owner can post an enforceable sign that prohibits firearms. They do it that way at the 5th Avenue mall, she said. It's enforced as a trespass law.

Of course, a gun owner remains free to carry a visibly displayed gun most places -- a grocery store, a city sidewalk.

"You could walk into Home Depot with a rifle strapped to your back. It might raise some eyebrows, but yeah," said Anita Shell, a police spokeswoman. "Imagine the amount of calls we'd get."

Police Chief Walt Monegan said if police are called to check out someone walking around with an unconcealed gun, they'd stop the person to make sure the person wasn't drunk, mentally ill or a felon -- things that make owning a gun illegal. If they meet the criteria, they're allowed to carry on.

After all, Traini said, "It's your right to carry a weapon."

Even if the city were able to pass tougher laws, Monegan said he wouldn't push for a concealed weapons permit requirement for Anchorage.

People can still get a permit even though they're not required. Some, like attorney Wayne Ross, local director for the National Rifle Association, said it's a good idea because other states may recognize the Alaska permit. But he's not an advocate for permit laws. Background checks are performed when people buy guns anyway, he said.

"If you have a constitutional right, why should you have to go to the state to get permission to exercise it?" he said.

Vermont is the only other state that doesn't require special permits to carry concealed weapons, he said.

Getting a permit requires the gun owner to go through some gun education and training, and that's a good thing, said Begich. But like other city officials, he said the people who shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun would probably bypass the permits and carry one illegally anyway.

He would like to see some gun education in the public schools, he said. In Alaska, where so many people hunt or spend time in the outdoors, guns are prevalent.

"Kids should understand the power of them and that there's a way to handle them and not handle them," Begich said.

Daily News reporter Anne Aurand can be reached at snipped-for-privacy@adn.com or

257-4591.

The rules

? PER ALASKA STATUTE 11.61.220: Concealed guns may not be carried into a courtroom or office of the Alaska Court System, a school yard, a bar, a domestic violence or sexual assault shelter that receives funding from the state, the premises or parking lot of a child care center, or into another person's residence without their permission. A person carrying a deadly weapon commits a crime if he doesn't immediately inform any peace officer who contacts him for any reason that the weapon is concealed on his person. He must allow a peace officer to secure the weapon, or obey directions from the officer to secure it.

********* It appears that Alaska and Vermont are not alone.....

Bills aim to oil concealed-carry law Both seal lists; one would skip permit Wednesday, September 14, 2005 Julie Carr Smyth Plain Dealer Bureau

Columbus - A sweeping proposal debuted in the Ohio House Tuesday that would further liberalize Ohio's rules for carrying concealed handguns.

The bill, sponsored by Cincinnati Republican Rep. Tom Brinkman, would allow carrying with no permit, lift carefully negotiated restrictions on hidden guns in public places, and cut off public access to permit-holder information.

Brinkman's aide, Kara Joseph, called it "the real right-to-carry bill." Twenty-four of 99 House members are co-sponsors. Brinkman said support has grown for loosening gun restrictions because Ohio's 17-month-old permitting process has been so successful.

"We have issued 45,000 gun permits and there's not been a single incident of a citizen with a permit committing a crime," he said.

His new bill proposes a hybrid "Alaska-style" approach to concealed weapons permitting, marrying Vermont's no-permit-required system with training requirements and optional licensing, Joseph said. Some people like having a permit they can carry to other states with reciprocal gun agreements.

Brinkman's legislation is viewed as a long shot for passage, most likely to be upstaged by a second concealed weapons bill being prepared by Rep. Jim Aslanides, the Coshocton Republican who carried

2004 legislation repealing Ohio's longstanding concealed-carry ban.

Both bills would repeal a provision that allows journalists access to the names of permit-holders by county. The records are otherwise off limits to the public.

Frank Deaner, executive director of the Ohio Newspaper Association, said his organization will fight for access.

"This isn't just a public records issue; this is a public safety issue," he said. "There are all kinds of reasons why people might want to know their friends and neighbors are carrying a concealed deadly weapon."

Brinkman said simply, "They're concealed weapons and we want to keep them that way."

His bill would also reverse restrictions against carrying concealed guns on college campuses, in day-care centers, and in cars traveling the highway. The State Highway Patrol lobbied successfully in 2004 for requiring permit-holders to either carry their weapons on their person or in a locked box while on the road.

Patrol spokesman Capt. John Born said the safeguards remain important to the patrol - whose support was key to Gov. Bob Taft's support of the 2004 CCW bill. Taft also insisted on journalists' access to permit-holder names at the time - and will continue to do so, said spokesman Mark Rickel.

"Those provisions were crucial to the governor's signing of the bill," he said, while stopping short of reviving any veto threat by the governor.

Sen. Eric Fingerhut, a Shaker Heights Democrat, said the future of the compromise "is clearly on Taft's shoulders."

"The National Rifle Association's intent was always to continue to chip away at reasonable precautions that were negotiated into the bill that they didn't like," Fingerhut said. "We have a responsibility not to subcontract the gun policy of Ohio to the NRA."

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

snipped-for-privacy@plaind.com, 1-800-228-8272 "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Can anybody name one legitimate reason?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:58:14 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

Nope, and when everyone else uses the term "concealed weapon" and he uses "concealed deadly weapon", we all know where his almost hidden agenda lies. Perhaps I should have said "concealed deadly agenda".

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