Generac Guardian Generators

Oh. He was a Nazi (actually, Cheney's the nazi; Bush was just a sock puppet). They're just "National Socialists," the operative word here being socialist. Obama's a "People's Socialist."

The only difference is that the people's socialists take your money away to pay the bills of the lazy, negligent and stupid poor people, and the national socialists take your money away to pay the bills of the lazy, negligent and stupid rich people.

The operative word here being "take."

Thanks, Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise
Loading thread data ...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Problem is, he's the one doing the battering.

Get the government out of the way and the economy will fix itself.

Thanks, Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

All sides have had plenty of opportunity to make proposals on how to fix the economy, yet all we have heard is bashing of the current administration's efforts. If the other sides had any legitimate alternatives we would have heard them. The fact is there are limited options and none of them are "silver bullets". If the other side was in office now, they would be doing pretty much the same things economically since there isn't much of an alternative.

I'm not so sure about that. A good portion of the source of the current problems was the government being "out of the way". And I'm no fan of government.

Reply to
Pete C.

The factual answer to that question is "no". The man is dead due to his failure to follow company and OSHA mandatory safety procedures. No amount of emotion changes that fact.

Yep, and not grounding that line per mandatory safety procedures is what killed him. The source of the electrons, be they from a private generator or the utility's generator is irrelevant.

Not a valid analogy. The mandatory grounding procedure is a 100% assurance against electrocution.

Manipulating court cases. I've seen it first hand in both "red" and "blue" states.

Reply to
Pete C.

The factual answer to that question is "no". The man is dead due to his failure to follow company and OSHA mandatory safety procedures. No amount of emotion changes that fact.

Yep, and not grounding that line per mandatory safety procedures is what killed him. That line can go live at any time for any number of reasons, a private generator, another line crew up the line, a tree branch falling of the line and removing a short, etc. The source of the electrons, be they from a private generator or the utility's generator is irrelevant.

Not a valid analogy. The mandatory grounding procedure is a 100% assurance against electrocution.

Manipulating court cases. I've seen it first hand in both "red" and "blue" states.

Reply to
Pete C.

Sorry, Pete, but it takes two to fry an idiot. I think most of us will disagree with you on that last statement. Yes, an idiot lineman who doesn't act carefully is -most- responsible, but the asswipe who charged the power line he was working on was also responsible for his death.

It's illegal (in many areas) to charge the power line with a genset, period.

Agreed, 100%.

-- "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." --Edward Abbey

Reply to
Larry Jaques

You know, maybe you can shed light on something. I thought that owners of things such as solar panels, and maybe even generators, can get a refund or money from the power company, if they feed power into an electric line.

Is that not backfeeding? How is it different? Is there some safety to such arrangements? Would a careless lineman ever be killed by a backfeeding solar panel or a generator?

Curious in Illinois

i
Reply to
Ignoramus30024

Check with your power company. There is likely an electrical or electronic shutoff feature which prevents these technologies from feeding a dead grid. Power on, relay connects, eh?

Here's one state's regs:

formatting link

-- "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." --Edward Abbey

Reply to
Larry Jaques

There is an elaborate standard, IEEE 1547, designed to prevent "islanding" by grid-tie inverters. When the grid dies, they drop off line. When the grid is restored, they wait several minutes before restarting themselves.

Reply to
David Lesher

Sorry, if the lineman followed mandatory procedures he would be alive. The fault is his alone. It doesn't matter whether the electrons came from a private generator or the utility's generator, the sole responsibility lies with the lineman who disregarded mandatory safety procedures.

Sorry, the power lines are always charged from a genset, usually a very large one. And either way, the source of the electrons is irrelevant to the negligent lineman's death.

If you agree with that, then you have to agree with the lineman's fault, since it is the same situation.

Reply to
Pete C.

Search on "grid tie inverter" for details on this.

Reply to
Pete C.

Yes, the odds were much higher if he'd followed procedure.

DBAD.

It's safety related and does matter. Do you think if that some idiot in the power plant had told him that the power was down (when it wasn't) that his head wouldn't roll for attempted murder (or murder) of the lineman?

No, the guy's genset in this case would be like a guy sneaking in with a hooked coat hanger and pulling the trigger of a loaded gun before it was holstered. It's criminal negligence to most of us.

-- If the only prayer you ever say in your whole life is "thank you," that would suffice. -- Meister Eckhart

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Not "much higher", they would have been 100%. A properly grounded line will not go hot.

Linemen are regularly enabled to kill themselves by uncoordinated line crews (especially with contract crews during a big storm cleanup), by branches falling and removing a short followed by reclosers reclosing, and numerous other sources. In all case the difference between dead and safe comes down to the lineman's compliance with safety procedures - the fault is his own.

I've read an incident report where a car accident plowed a pad mount transformer off it's pad. The lineman showed up and then proceeded to try to inspect and clean the "elbow" connectors (HV banana plugs basically) without bothering to verify that they were not still live. Would you try to blame the car driver for this lineman's act of stupidity? I believe that idiot survived his zap and perhaps learned why those safety procedures are mandatory.

No, that is not remotely close to a valid analogy. The guy with the generator loaned his gun to the lineman, but it was the lineman who picked it up, put it to his head and pulled the trigger. It is not in any way criminal negligence. It is not even negligence since the lineman's mandatory safety procedures would have 100% prevented any injury. The negligence is on the part of the lineman not following mandatory procedures - He broke the rules and he was killed as a result

- nothing else is relevant to his death.

Reply to
Pete C.

Who's to say he wouldn't have fallen and killed himself even after grounding if it sparked when he did so? (bait, no response necessary)

OK, you got it, the death is on the lineman alone.

But the idiot who fed back his genset is still guilty of a crime. I mean, it's not like the salesman, the manual, TV, and most of his neighbors hadn't warned him about pulling that stunt.

-- If the only prayer you ever say in your whole life is "thank you," that would suffice. -- Meister Eckhart

Reply to
Larry Jaques

All work is performed with full hot line gear until the line is grounded. Linemen are quite used to sparking connections.

Yea, code violation - cease and desist, pay $100 permit fee and do it correctly. That is if he's in an area that requires permits, if not - no code, no crime (no permits where I am).

Reply to
Pete C.

I have a 5500 watt HF unit, but generally wait at least an hour before even thinking about getting it out. When we lived in Show Low, the guy "in the back yard" had an auto-start type, but didn't have it isolated properly. The power went out one night, but his generator kicked in immediately, leaving us in "brown-out" condition which was just enough juice to keep the UPS from going to its battery. I checked, and it was 60 volts. I figured... "Hey, we're getting enough juice to keep the computers running... why not try to keep this going as long as possible." I went around and turned off all the high draw things I could think of, and things chugged along fine for a half hour or so. Then the electric water heater in the roastery (that I had forgotten to turn off) kicked on, and his generator quit. I don't know how many houses he was supplying, but it was a small and isolated neighborhood, so not many. I *think* we were both on the same transformer.

Anyway... there's a data point for you. Feeding the grid won't necessarily kill the home genset.

Reply to
Steve Ackman

Prius hybrid? What's the generator capacity of those beasties? A/C, or straight D/C? Interesting idea.

-- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

Reply to
Larry Jaques

--Yeah that sounds about right. When I bought the RV, like a "smart" buyer I turned on the genny and let it run for a few minutes: no problemo. But the first time I took the RV on a long trip and I reeeeeally needed the genny to run the A/C it quit after about a 15 min run! Wouldn't start up again until it had cooled down (and I warmed up!). Turns out there's an issue with a coil of some sort that overheats, causes shorts, and stops working. --I called Generac, or rather tried to: they've been bought out by another co and they don't seem to give a shit about old machine repair! I couldn't get *anyone* to give me ANY help at all; i.e. no addresses of authorized repair centers, no parts available from mfr, etc. In other words it's a dead duck and I bought a pig in a poke. --In the end I bit the bullet and bought an Onan; had it installed by an authorized dealer (since gone out of biz in these hard times) and have had zero problems. Do yourself a favor and ditch the Generac: it's a boat anchor.

Reply to
steamer

Onan has awesome parts support, though pricey.

I agree with you

i
Reply to
Ignoramus29073

formatting link

Reply to
David Lesher

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.