Gov Surplus Gensets questions

Suggestion: Measure just how much power the welder is really using (more-or-less)

Power meters aren't mysterious black boxes, just write down the meter reading before and after a welding project and see how many KWH were used.

Granted you still have the "background" use of the rest of the house, but as you noted it's all CF lights and gas stove/dryer so the background use should be fairly constant.

If you want to eliminate it just down the times you took the readings as well and take another set of reading immediately after the welding project over the same duration and subtract that reading from the first. You should get something reasonably close to the true KWH used by the welding.

Pete C.

If the post above is correct and they are charging more per KWH above a mysterious baseline then you need to investigate just how they are calculating the baseline. If it is an average usage over a several month period then just make sure you weld more to increase the baseline :)

It sounds like it's not exactly a peak metered thing like commercial, but it's not a straight cost per KWH either. Even the "over 300% of baseline" is only $0.215 /KWH so as long as they are only charging that rate on the portion over the baseline and not the whole bill then the cost for that extra gulp of welding power is pretty close to what it will cost you to generate yourself.

I'll also note that running your own generator may sound like it's cheaper when you divide the fuel cost by the generator capacity, however unless you are actually using the full generator capacity the entire run time the cost per KWH used is much higher. A typical small genset may use say 1 gal/hr at full load, but still use .75 gal/hr at half load.

Pete C.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:47:15 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner spake:

You might be surprised. Drag a rake or hoe around the inside of the perimeter looking for buried cords. Thieves can be sneaky and cover their tracks, especially with the price of Gray Davis electricity.

I wonder if I can find that less-than-subtle Indian picture again... Ayup, here's one, and I've seen worse. It must be interesting trying to connect -without- electrocuting themselves.

======================================================== TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Gourmet Web Applications ==========================

Nope. For a home with gas appliances, he's well above average for use in his normal month, double on his high month. His consumption is as far from "pretty minimal" as Bush is from "fiscally conservative".

Our 22 cu. ft. 7 year old fridge uses 1.2 kWhrs a day. A desktop computer with a CRT monitor might use 160W. More if has a bunch of doo-dads on it. Left on 24-7, about three times the consumption of our refrigerator. Most likely gunner has an older fridge though, which might be using 4 kWhrs a day ($20 a month). The computer another 4, of which 7 bucks a month of that $20 cost is probably for an in-your-face screensaver.

$150 a month, even in California, isn't just barely ticking over. $150 extra for welding doesn't even compute.

Wayne

At say, 6kW, and 15 cents a kWhr, that's under 6 bucks a month.

Ignore the details. Divide your total bill by your total kWhrs per month. That's your true cost per kWhr. Use less, and both the total and the unit price will be lower.

Unless your normal monthly bill is $6, then he's a doofus.

Oh brother. Let's imagine you have a VCR, a satellite TV receiver, a TV, and a DVD player. A combo like that might use 40 Watts 24-7, *even if you don't turn any of them on*. Get out your calculator...

40W*24hrs*30days = about 29 kWhrs a month, or almost as much as your welding.

Wayne

Hi Guner

You can get a lot of information at;

The group is about converting the air cooled engines from gen sets to aircraft. You can find info on the different motors, files of the manuals for the equipment and links to tech info.

They probably know where to get you a pile of generators without engines if you can use them.

Hope the day finds you well DocFont

How many remotes do you have in the house? Wondering about "phamtoms" like devices on standby.

Don't run a water feature 24x7 do you?

OK, going back and re-reading the thread, my comment above is clearly wrong.

Other folks have been giving you good advice. You need to be sure that a) there is no sneak use on the service - which means turning off everthing and checking to see that the meter stops spinning. b) you should check to see that the metering is correct, which would mean adding a known resisitive load (incandescent lamps are good) for a given time, and see that the meter integrates that to the correct value.

Finally you need to double-check the rate structure that the company is applying. I have to go back and look (I saw a rate structure in a previous post but now I can't find it again, I am figuring it was yours) to see if the welding is putting you into a 'peak demand' charge catagory.

Because I don't pay the bills here, I was unaware of what you were implying with the dollar amounts above - my accountant (the lovely ms mulligan) tells me that even during the summer, with *everything* running around here, we don't spike above

200 dollars a month. And con ed is not noted for its benificent treatement of customers....

You probably *do* have a well pump, yes?

Jim

I honestly dont know. But Ill check.

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

I will do exactly that.

At one time I questioned my power bill, when I was living in a small 2 bedroom rental. I spray painted the face of my meter black, and documented the act, the date and the meter reading.

My PG&E bill rose and fell over the next 6 months. Then I contacted the PUC (via a friend inside the PUC).

From what I understand, PG&E made no admissions, but I got a $600 credit. This in about 1985 or so.

From talking to other people in my neck of the woods, they also have similar issues.

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

Actually, no. All the computer equpment is set up to go into suspend mode. Its all Green compliant.

The fridge is 5 yrs old

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

I, too, have PG&E. I don't think there is any extra cost for peak demand time. At any rate, not for households. There is for farmers. Sue

Why are you figuring your costs on transportation diesel and not on the much cheaper home heating oil diesel. With the transportation diesel you are paying 40 to 50 cents a gallon in taxes while the home heating fuel is tax exempt.

No, no, no... Not the old cars, the rust worms, silly. Old cars, those we've got tons of, and many in surprisingly good shape body wise. Engine-wise, on the other hand... Some of the beaters out there are pretty bad, in the 'leaving black clouds' way.

Hollywood does not have to look very far for lots of nice vintage vehicles for background to shoot pictures set in any era they want, they just go to the local car clubs and dangle a few hundred dollar bills.

-->--

No well. Comes from the local water district.

See, thats the kicker...I have minimal shit running. When I come home on the weekends, I dont run out and turn on every damned thing I own. Everything that runs power, runs on master disconnects, and they get systematically turned off every time Im done using them. RPCs, etc etc. Nothing..I repeat NOTHING is allowed to idle for very long.

So I guess Im going to have to get off my ass and take a systematic study of what the hell is going on.

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael

Demand meters are very rare to unknown on residential services, but very common on commercial and industrial. That's the "Speedometer" part of the mechanical meters that they reset with the little lever through the glass. (That gets sealed so you can't reset it yourself.) On electronic demand meters, it cycles through as one of the sets of digits displayed.

If Gunner's house meter is the standard mechanical one, it almost certainly isn't checking the demand rate, but if they have an electronic meter there it could. (Even if they don't use it for billing purposes, they can record it.)

-->--

Another thought. Are your rates based on "peak demand". If you draw 100 Amps for

10 seconds does that change the rate you pay for all the rest of your power. I understand that some meters have a peak demand indicater or some such.

Bill K7NOM

I would add to that to check the wiring to any out buildings for weak insulation. I lived in an older place a few years ago and had an outrageous power bill. It had wires going out to the shop/garage running across a tin roof. I didn't like that idea so I replaced the wires and ran them appropriately and the bill dropped by over $70 a month. There were no signs of arcing or burning. Time to start looking around with a clamp on amp meter. A "hot" neutral will spike your bill. Add a welder to a wiring problem and it will magnify the effect exponetially. Glenn