How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1" square rod 6" long ...........
leave the ends like they are one inch on each end ...............
turn down the middle to 7/8" diameter ...........
put lengthwise flutes in it ............
So it looked like an antique wood column when done?
Make 50 of them?
Can be hot rolled steel, can even be scrap, just has to look nice when finished. Will be painted.
I am interested in having some of these made, and other shapes that look like old columns, but with a little more designs. On some, the round shaft can be smooth, and there would be a raised ring between the end square and the round shaft. Just like an old wood column. That would probably be a lot easier and cheaper to do than cutting the flutes, right?
Turning a 4" long diameter in a 6" long square bar isn't that big of a deal. All you need is a lathe with a 5C collet closer, a 1" square collet (I think this as big as a 5C goes), and a tail stock with a live center. Knocking the corners off will be slow, and pretty rough on tools
Cutting fancy features lengthwise in the round portion can get complicated. If the features are 90 or 180 degrees apart you can use the remaining square ends as references. Any more than that and your looking at a 4th axis set up. Maybe even 4 axis surfacing.
Hard to give you an idea of the cost without seeing it. One thing's for sure, the material cost will be insignificant compared to the labor.
Wrong! 5C collets are available in (round) sizes up to 1-1/8", but there's no chance in hell you can buy one large enough to hold 1" square material. The material exceeds collet size across the corners. You could buy a step chuck (2" diameter or larger) and mill the configuration with some care, however.
complicated.
Not true. If the parts are machined by holding with a step chuck, an indexing head and tailstock center would be adequate for holding and indexing for flutes. One could machine them easily @ 30 degree or 45 degree intervals, using a small (radiused) side cutter, either on a horizontal or a vertical mill. The biggest problem here would be using a small enough cutter so it didn't interfere with the square portion. A Woodruff cutter might be a solution. This would be an excellent operation for a hand mill, a Nichols, for example.
Absolutely. This would be a relatively labor intensive part to make, even without difficult tolerances, which are not a concern from all indications. At today's shop prices, I wouldn't be surprised to see a part of this nature go for $45 each.
Which is exactly the reason why he shouldnt even be considering any 'garage shops' at all.......
Sheesh...that's a three minute job ( tops ) given any fairly large quantity and contracting most any shop that has a fairly modern cnc lathe with a barfeed.
Two machines..lathe and miller with indexing head.
Gunner
"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability, accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee, imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'
You may want to consider having the fluted section done seperately or buy some stock that looks like it and then have someone weld the square sections onto the end. It'll cost less.
I am disappointed in you all. 12 responses, and no one that will even guess at a price.
All I want to know is if it will be plausible. One fellow said he needed a drawing. For what? If he can't read the simple description, I don't want him to touch the job. Another suggested a CNC shop. Very plausible, but no guess. Another said $45. Warmer. I know for $45 per, this project will not be practical.
Can anyone give a straight answer? I'm not really interested in how to do it or which machines one would use. Just a guess at how much each would cost.
Thanks.
You guys are a great group, but you missed the target on this one.
Your simple description left a lot out to give a real quote. You won't find many(any?) shops that will quote you something without some sort of drawing.
How many flutes? what size? full length?
If $45 per is too much for you, I suspect this project is doomed. Any shop that can crank them out fast enough(ie CNC) to make them cheaper is going to have expensive equipment to amortize. Anyone who is doing it by other means(lathe, shaper, mill) is going to have substantial labor time to bill you for.
Steve. The reason for drawings from a customer is insurance that the final result will be just what he wants. Descriptions just don't cut it in the real world. As soon as a product is made to someone's description, the customer will tell you, "well, what I really meant was.... and I won't pay until it is just what I want, not what I describe.
Probably not in your case, but in many cases when a customer is forced to put his request in a drawing, he will revise the specifications several times before h is through. Better to do it in a drawing than to do it in metal.
The reason that we amateur machinists ARE amateur machinists is to avoid the delays and expense associated with having things made for us. Notice that this implies that we do not go to machine shops to have things made, and therefor would have no reason to know what the going rate for machine work is.
How would I know what it would cost to have someone make the widgets I want? I make them myself!
If WHAT will be plausible?
The devil is in the details. What might seem like an inconsequential detail to you could be a major complication to the implementation. For example, you say you want flutes in the pieces, but you don't say how many you want. The equipment needed for the task depends on how many flutes (divisions of 360 degrees) there will be and where they will be located relative to the square section. Many "garage machinists" will not have a dividing head for their miller and may therefor not be able to give what you want at all. Of course, they won't even be able to SAY if they can do the job without A DRAWING.
It's not the description he's having trouble reading. It's your MIND that he can't read.
That's too bad. Because grant asked for a drawing, he would have been the most likely one to give a decent quote.
Unless you provide a drawing, with dimensions (*toleranced* dimensions) you have ZERO chance of getting what you want.
ZERO.
ABSOLUTELY ZERO.
You will not be happy with what you receive unless you tell the person making it what you want made. The way that is done in this business is not with a phone call, not with an e-mail, not with verbal description.
It's done with a print, with dimensions and tolerances. This does not have to be a CAD drawing, it doesn't even have to be done on a drafting board with a t-square. But it has to adhere to the conventions for views, dimensions, and tolerances.
Unless you can render your idea into a drawing like that, NOBODY can make it. Except maybe you. But as a reference point, whenever I go into my own shop to whack together a motorcycle part, on my own lathe, as a one-off that never has to be duplicated ever, the first thing I do is:
MAKE A DRAWING. WITH DIMENSIONS.
You may not realize it, but you *are* getting the straight answer. I propose that you bring the task to a local job shop and pitch it to them. See what they say.
It's gonna be 100 bucks an hour to design and draw it. Depending on how rapidly you change the concept during the design phase, this will be between one and ten hours.
Then they're probably gonna charge you between 60 and 100 bucks per hour to *make* them. If you don't care to change the design to make the manufacture easier, this can run up fast. You *should* care how they're made, and what machines are used. That determines how much they cost.
I want to have a welder make me 6 welded steel lawn chairs out of 1" square tube, and maybe some other stuff. The lawn chairs must have four legs each and must have some sort of a back to them.
I can't quote what "they" would charge. Probably somewhere between $1 and $1 million per chair, and I believe that would be pretty accurate.
For that job, if I were to do it, (I am a certified welder), I would charge from $100 to $400 per chair depending on the design, elements, and special considerations. An exact price would have to be determined by first providing a drawing. I would do it for no less than $100 per item, and after that, it depends on your design.
Steve, without a print, dimensions, tolerence and so forth, no one in their right mind would give you a quote, if they do this for a living.
If you want to fax me a print(s), Ill have a couple of my job shops give you quotes.
Its not just the description Steve..but the liability. I could have PT Engineering turn out these for you at $xx each, and if you refused them, we both (Nyguen and I) would be stuck eating the materials, and the machine time.
Now if you wanted a BUNCH of them..I can also give you a quote on having them die cast., either complete units, or modular so you can mix and match features. Mold cost will be steep, parts will be very cheap. The first one will cost you about $10,000. The rest of them a couple bucks each at most.
Based on your rather nebulous description, they could be done for much less than $45 each,..much less..but material cost alone can run a big gammit, depending on what you actually want them made off. Aluminum? Hrs? Crs?
Aluminum can be run balls to the wall, lots of parts per hour. Steel...way slower...more hours, higher cost. Do they need to be deburred? What surface finish? Deburring costs are expensive if you want detail hand work, or simply stuck in a vibratory deburrer?
Im serious. If you want a quote, email me, Ill give you a couple fax numbers, and Ill get you brother-in-law pricing.
Gunner
"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability, accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee, imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'
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