Is our view of old engineering distorted by the products which survive?

It does look a bit Eastern Bloc, doesn't it? But actually it's made in England. You're not boycotting England just yet, are you?

Best wishes,

Chris

I don't own a genuine pair of Vise-Grips. The best have always been sold under the "Mole" brand here in England, and are often generically known as "mole wrenches".

Actually, I think this is one case in which you can often buy an imitation and have it work satisfactorily (although I doubt they'll be as durable). Compare this with cheap screwdrivers and adjustable spanners, which are never okay, and destroy everything you try to turn with them.

Personally I've yet to find a better adjustable spanner than the Bahco.

Best wishes,

Chris

This is definitely true. I've taken plenty of appliances apart to see. Washing machine outer drums are now plastic as opposed to enamelled steel. Poly-V belts have replaced the more traditional V-belts, and the latest pulleys are incredibly thin die castings. Commutator motors have replaced induction motors (some of the early washing machines even had a gearbox attached to the induction motor - now that was cool). Die castings have replaced sand castings. And there's less metal in pretty much every part!

My parents chucked out an AEG washing machine which was about 14 years old a while back. It was much heavier than most modern machines. Unfortunately it was the electronics which killed it. You don't actually need electronics in a washing machine.

Best wishes,

Chris

Don't confuse "impossible to repair" with "uneconomical to repair" They are two very different things. I can't prove it, but I have little doubt that most TVs are junked with fairly minor problems, easily repaired by someone with the proper skills and knowledge and with access to the proper parts and information. The problem is, even that simple repair would cost vaguely as much as a new TV. Therefore, TV repair shops (except for warranty service depots) are a dying breed.

Vaughn

This is interesting. I get the impression that there are two distinct trends here, and they're pulling in opposite directions. Cars are becoming more reliable and durable during their intended lifetime, due to a number of factors such as better manufacturing accuracy, better lubricants, electronic engine management, etc. But outside their intended lifetime they are far harder to maintain. Which would you prefer to have to maintain in 50 years time: a 2008 car filled with electronics, or a 1927 Ford Model T?

I believe this is largely due to the introduction of integrated circuits. But again, when modern TVs do break they're often impossible to repair. And I prefer analogue knobs for volume controls, etc. Buttons annoy me!

I remember someone saying that with modern tyres, you could leave a car in a field and even in hundreds of years time, when the car has rusted away, the tyres will still be there. Tyre technology has certainly advanced.

But there has nevertheless been a reduction in the amount of metal in many products. Sometimes parts have just been made using less metal, making them weaker and more likely to break. Other times they've been replaced with plastic parts. Weak metal parts are bad because they break more easily. But plastic parts are worse, because when they break you stand no chance of satisfactorily repairing them. So there are certainly ways in which we're going backwards, too.

Thanks for the thoughts. It has been an interesting discussion.

Best wishes,

Chris

There wasn't a manual with it. I think they figure you can make toast without a manual!

Best wishes,

Chris

And by the time they fail, the owner is often ready to buy a new one. The 21" NEC in my bedroom still works perfectly (the remote has been repaired several times though) and it was purchased before my 21 year old daughter was born.

If it fails, the decision to repair it will probably be based on how much trouble it is to throw it away (:

I'm with you on all of that. I'd love to have a decent strike everywhere match.

Well I think it has fallen to match the abilty of customers to actually fix things tha that break.

I'll sit back and watch too.

Wes

Soon to be "Made in China":

David

Some retailers actually offer it for sale or lease.

Well, considering that, according to Sturgeon's Law "90% of everything is crap" - I'd say about one item in ten wasn't. There is also the issue of "what it was made of". Stuff which rotted, regardless of quality, is more often lost than the tuff which doesn't.

there is also the "favorite tee-short" issue. That is to say, have you ever noticed that your favorite tee-shirt, which you wear daily, turns to rags long before the crappy one you never wear?

tschus pyotr

-- pyotr filipivich "I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender whether they served zombies he said, ?Sure, what'll you have?'" from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

I had a knockoff - found a round file for it. I have a large set of Vice-Grips. C lamps and such. Nice quality.

Martin

Mart> D>> >>

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I guess a few people still remember it. A 150 mph production motorcycle certainly stood out in the early '50s.

-- Ed Huntress

Check Tim Hunkin's web site, especially

I suspect the problem is that they took all or most of the phosphorus out of the match tips, for safety. Phosphorus is poisonous, and can be really hard on unsupervised children.

Joe Gwinn

Mr. Muntz did, with the Muntz TV.

"Then came the TV years. Muntz thought the television sets on the market at the time were far too complicated, so he experimented by buying an existing set, disassembling it, then removing parts one at a time. If the set still played, he removed another part. Then another and another. Finally, with the set simplified as much as it could be, it became a Muntz TV! And these black and white TV sets, the smallest of which sold for $99.95, breaking the $100 price barrier for the first time, became some of the hottest selling consumer products in America."

IIRC, the Muntz TV had 13 tubes while most others had more than 20.

Speaking of toasters and related gadgets, I have an old, at least 50 years old, Toastmaster toaster. I have repaired it but the repairs were minor and the toaster has seen lots of use. The reason I still have it is because it toasts evenly, repeatedly, and the toast descends and ascends automatically. A motor does the work and makes a pleasing sound to boot. And my Kitchen Aid standing mixer was built in

1936. Built by Hobart. I use it to make bread. Today is available a Kitchen Aid mixer that looks to be basically the same unit. A 3 speed gearbox jjust like mine. And it's only 1800 frog pelts. ERS