Lathe on the way

Bill Schwab · 2008-03-22T03:08:56+00:00

Hello all,Overlapping sales and the likelihood of more weakening of the dollar pushed me over the edge on the Enco 12x36 geared head lathe; the spindle is D1-4. You might recall that I got pretty close to buying the belt-driven threaded-spindle version of the machine back in the fall. Long story short: I just couldn't go through with it, and ended up getting a better machine for the same (perhaps less) money than I would have paid for the lesser one in the fall.Presumably in a matter of days, a lift-gated truck will appear at my curb. I am planning to use an engine hoist to lift the lathe (the manual has pictures of how to sling it), back my F-150 under it, drive the 50ft to the garage (it's the down-hill part that makes it fun w/o a truck), back in enough to reach level cement, and then again use the hoist to exchange truck bed for assembled stand. Sound about right? It weighs around 1000 lb.I am a little concerned about getting the hoist to straddle the pallet; suggestions, lessons from the school of hard knocks, etc., would be appreciated. Enco tells me it holds 3 gallons of hydraulic fluid!!! That's on the way too. I ended up buying a a Rohm ball bearing chuck and an arbor. It was a LOT cheaper than the Jacobs chuck that I might eventually get (and have on an R8 arbor for my mill).Assuming I know nothing about running a lathe (not far from the truth), any good reading assignments? I have a couple of Audel books, but I find them to be short on teaching: great references though. The Home Machinist's Handbook by Brinney looks helpful.I will probably end up doing this on my mill, but is there a good way to face the ends of square tubing on a lathe? The pieces I have in mind are 2" square, 1/8" wall thickness, and vary from 11 to 14 inches or so. I assume the trick would be to make/get a rest for square tubing??? Beyond an opportunity to fiddle with the new toy, the cross-section is too deep to easily side mill (should have thought to buy long end-mills...

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Bill Schwab 18 years ago

Don,

My thinking exactly, sir! :)

I thought about a truck/truck transfer, but will probably go the ground and hoist route.

Dumb question: any trick to keeping the pull from simply tearing apart the pallet? One thought I had was a 2x4 shoved in the pallet and a sling over it up to the hoist - that should get it going, assuming the wood can take it.

Good to know. At the risk of appearing to cross-examine (in reality I simply want to understand to get the most out of your helpful descriptions), unload from the _pickup_??? Would you still have done the ramp transfer, or would you have gone flatbed-ground-hoist?

Ok, now I'm starting to think that you would have done the ramp between the two trucks, and then used to hoist from your pickup to the ground. Is that it?

I still do not quite follow (sorry). Unless the idea was to lower onto cribbing to have stable foundation while you unbolted the pallet? I am assuming that you slung the lathe, and the pallet is just along for the ride; one could then unbolt with the whole thing swinging, but it would be very dangerous to do that - the load could fall, or shift and then fall as the pallet does weirdness being partially attached to that lathe. However, I would probably leave the hoist holding some tension on the lathe, just in case all hell broke loose with the pallet while I was unbolting it.

Scary thought, but I get the idea.

Please be careful, as my evil twin is the one who buys all this stuff; I am fairly certain he settled for a keyed chuck :) Humor aside, I might be in for a pleasant surprise, but I was trying to balance price and quality, and the Enco tech suggested the Rohm as a worthy compromise. Worst case, it will become a backup to my Jacobs.

I bought my last Jet machine a couple of years ago. The clincher was when I called them to point out that they had an safety latch that needed to remain in place bolted at one point, and that it would eventually pivot. Nutty me, I thought they would want to know - they didn't care, nor did they seem to even grasp how stupid the design might be, nor that they might want to find somebody who might understand same. Anyway, it *did* fail as I predicted.

Great minds... I fully expect to go that route, I just have to slow down the flow of green stuff out of my wallet for a while. If the Phase-II is anything like the RT they make, it will be very much worth the money. I assume/hope that I will be able to function with the existing post while I fumble my way along with learning what the new toy can do. After I recover from April 15 and brace for the local guys mugging me later in the year, I can start looking for sales.

That is what I did. One of the parts is a singleton, but I would no doubt give it a shorter peer to help stabilize it. The other reason to cut two at a time was that I wanted them to be the same length, whatever that turned out to be. Now that I think about it, if I put that improvised stop in the center, it should be able to work for both tubes, allowing me to the lengths the same - I think :)

Dumb question: after the first cut puts the machined surface right at the edge of the tool, right? Would not a stop set against it (firm but not deformed) be in just the right place w/o moving the table? I need to read it a few more times, but you appear to have added a step. What does that fix?

Thanks!

Bill

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Bill Schwab 18 years ago

Don,

FWIW, I have gotten to know one of the Enco techs, and he seems to think the lathe I bought is a good one. I will ask him about this, but suspect he will agree with you.

That seems reasonable.

I feared as much. Is there a good compromise: open a panel and look for signs of trouble?

Bill

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Bob in Phx 18 years ago

No, we don't have a jag.... Chevy and Pontiac here.... Yea, we do go a little deep sometimes, but this thing wasn't that bad. Not like an engine rebuild or anything.

My brother did take lots of pictures and if your really interested, I can get him to load them on his ftp site.

no real special tools, a bench buffer was used to really clean out the gears and get the edge burrs off.

Torque was not really a concern as some of the nuts and bolts were only finger tight... we just watched what we were doing and tried to use common sense.

we did use lots of lube (I don't remember what it was, but he does I am sure) and changed the head oil a couple of times, in short order after a self described break in period. This lathe has a sight glass for oil level and since we got the insides really clean the glass has stayed clean a readable. The oil color has not changed at all.

Like I said before, this is a great lathe!!! but consider it a lathe kit as it comes from the factory!!!!!!!!

bob

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Bill Schwab 18 years ago

Bob,

I knew it :) My beat up '96 F-150 that I bought a couple of years ago is less beat up than it was - mostly by my hand, so I can no longer claim to be a complete wimp. But as Dirty Harry said "A man's got to know his limitations."

Whether or not I decide to tear it down, I would greatly enjoy seeing the pictures, and I am probably not alone.

That's probably just a new wheel for my grinder. From the diagrams, I'd blow for a proper c-clip tool.

That would be good to know. I am aware that people slather engine parts with assembly lube - I have yet to get that far into one.

The manual refers to one too - a certain number of hours below a specified speed.

Thanks!

Bill

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Wayne 18 years ago

For me the scariest part of the job is getting the heavy stuff off the truck on to the ground. I ended up renting a forklift for that. If they can put it on the ground for you, I'd consider that half the battle. I don't know how steep your driveway is or if it is paved. I'd arrange to put 1x6 as runners on the bottom of the pallet, then put it all on pipes. Alternately use strong casters. I'd tie the lathe to the truck to keep it from rolling downhill. Then having one person on each side of the lathe, back the truck up slowly, and move the pipes as they come out to the other side. Once in the garage, move it wherever you want. After that use different size blocks of wood and a 50" pry bar to slowly lower it down. You'd end up cutting away the pallet. Use the hoist if you can get it in place. My friend had an older hoist that wasn't vee shaped, so it could stradle the lathe.

I did the reverse process of pulling a lathe out of a unpaved driveway uphill. Used a truck to pull it and 2 2'x4' sheets of 3/4" plywood.

Wayne D.

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DoN. Nichols 18 years ago

Ouch! I had not read reports of grit in the gearhead versions of the lathe until a couple of articles after I posted the one to which you just replied. Had I read that first, I obviously would not have posted it as it sat.

O.K. No certainty whether the paint would have released the grit without testing it -- which is rather an expensive test if it fails.

Enjoy, DoN.

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DoN. Nichols 18 years ago

O.K.

Except that another posting shows that there can be significant grit trapped inside a gearhead lathe.

You'll have to ask the fellow who has done it, and who posted last night (unless he has already answered in this thread). What he found was blisters of paint holding large clumps of sand in the corners of the gearcase. If that is the case, it *might* stay put with only slow cutting all the time, but with high spindle speeds stirring up the lubricant, it might well pop those blisters and let the sand get into circulation with the oil. I wonder whether there is a filter to capture that grit?

I've never seen the inside of a gear-head lathe.

Good luck, DoN.

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DoN. Nichols 18 years ago

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As any good driver should. I guess that a lowboy flatbed would allow a bit more speed, but still not a good idea.

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:-)

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Great! I know that Rhom is good based on what I have (the 3/8" one). Not sure who made our live center, but hopefully that is also a good one.

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In my case, the slot for the tang is horizontal -- with access via a pair of milled slots to allow a drift key to be used to pop things out at need.

Good -- but noisy. :-)

Hmm ... is this their version of the 4x6 horizontal/vertical bandsaw? I've got the MSC version and the prop to hold it in the vertical position is metal and good and solid.

O.K. I was assuming that the height of the endmill would be the same for both passes -- so anything which the stop could be set to in the initial orientation would be within reach of the endmill in the second orientation.

O.K. A solid block which bolts down with a T-stud followed by adjusting a threaded rod to contact, and tightening a locknut to keep it there would probably have little deformation -- unless you crank too hard on the rod before locknuting it. There may still be a 0.001" to

0.002" offset unless you have a constant pressure against the stop each time. Hmm -- or mount a dial indicator to measure the end of the workpiece, zero it, and withdraw the contact during machining.

Enjoy, DoN.

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