Modern car paint and rust

My 2000 CRV still looks nearly new, because I welded up a few small rust holes and wax it yearly.

-jsw

WOw! I'll need to climb under and check it out. I expect I won't see any problems, it's been a Florida truck all it's life, so no snow or salt on the underside. It just rolled over 100,000 miles in the last two weeks. Hmm, another 20 years will make me 81, I might need to purchase another truck before I die. ;-) Thanks for the heads up on the rust problem.

Mikek

If it has no rust yet, get a good oil type rust prevention spray on it. Do they have Krown or RustChek down there? Or mabee Rusty Jones??

No biggie but it you get around to looking I would be curious to know how it looks :)

A friend/neighbor bought a 1976 Chevy K20 Pickup from Montana last summer. Made a trip to trailer it back. I had a 1976 C10 Shortbox Pickup that was ridiculously rusted out by 1980. Bottom of the tailgate, doors, front fenders, front of the hood, inner box fenders... It was two years old when I bought it and immediately had it rustproofed. It still looked good then... Anyway the truck he brought back is in immaculate condition. I had warned him about that year and rust but was I ever wrong. Still has the original paint. He just did some routine maintenance, tires, exhaust, cab mounts... and drove it. It has been appraised at $18000 to $22000 if I recall correctly.

So where you live can make a big difference...

HUGE difference

Very interesting. My wife had a CR/V for 10 years and it looked almost new despite being parked outside. She is a gentle car user, for sure, but still for Illinois it was impressive. Now she has a Honda Pilot, the same story, great quality vehicle.

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:25:30 PM UTC-5, Christopher Tidy wrote :

able to get you some names.

I'm working on a book and I want to know how to get a coating with a simil ar performance (modern car paint is, as far as I can see, way better than a nything I can get in the shop). It doesn't have be a unique or comprehensiv e answer, but it needs to be a practical and understandable method. Any ide a of someone who could help?

Sorry for the delay, Chris. I had surgery, and ten days later, my wife had surgery. I haven't been online for a while.

It sounds like you're talking about an aftermarket paint, right? Is it actu ally for cars, or something else?

And are you thinking of "performance" in terms of rust resistance, adhesion , gloss, or what?

Whenever I have questions like that, I go to DuPont, PPG, or similar compan ies and explain that I'm in need of an engineer, because I have technical q uestions. Sometimes customer service will direct me; other times, I have to go to marketing or press relations and explain that I'm writing something about it. That always works, although it can take a little time. Since you' re writing a book, you should be able to leap that hurdle.

If you're not comfortable doing that, let me know what info you want and I' ll get you some names and contact info. If you'd rather do it my email, the address above is valid (edhuntress2 [at] gmail.com.

Be aware that there are several approaches to protecting steel with afterma rket products: barriers; conversion coatings; and sacrificial coatings (zin c-loaded epoxy, for example). There is a lot of territory to cover.

Jeez, that's above my pay grade, Ig. There are just too many variables. I c an tell you, though, that eight years is more or less the industry benchmar k these days, and when you dig into their technical literature, you'll find that ten years is a frequent target for the latest treatments.

A lot of today's vehicles have a 10 year rust "perforation" warranty. If you get a bubble in the paint you KNOW there is perforation allowing moisture in from the back.

I can tell you, though, that eight years is more or less the industry bench mark these days, and when you dig into their technical literature, you'll f ind that ten years is a frequent target for the latest treatments.

Right. Those warranties generally are for perforation. The eight and ten-ye ar terms I was talking about are for gloss -- and they aren't guarantees.

As I think I mentioned, the newer automotive paint systems are looking for gloss, usually for the clear coat, but in some cases for the base coat with no clear coat (like Ford's new system, which they aren't using for cars ye t).

Even Ford's "clear coat" in the early 2000s isn't really "clear" - it is a translucent colour coat (It's pealing a few spots on the '02 Taurus.

s. I can tell you, though, that eight years is more or less the industry be nchmark these days, and when you dig into their technical literature, you'l l find that ten years is a frequent target for the latest treatments.

-year terms I was talking about are for gloss -- and they aren't guarantees .

or gloss, usually for the clear coat, but in some cases for the base coat w ith no clear coat (like Ford's new system, which they aren't using for cars yet).

I'm keeping an eye on my 2004 Focus and my 2004 Sonata. So far, they're bot h bright and shiny, with no rust (except under the hood of the Focus, which has what looks like plain carbon steel fasteners under the hood. Stupid, t o save maybe 50 cents over galvanized or stainless.)

A mate works in engine design and has worked on a number of projects for Ford and he hates their projects as he said they make you justify every change just to save fractions of a Euro cent. Likely someone has thought long and hard about those fasteners and decided they could get away with it. My mate mentioned the Ford baked potato joke which he said was funny but all too true

the 1990s, this changed - and quite suddenly. Does anyone know what specifi c changes were made to the paint composition and surface treatment? I can o nly find vague allusions in most articles.

Here's how cheap Ford is. About 15 yrs. ago I was reading the latest Popula r Mechanics auto advice column. A guy wrote in with a concern about his oil pressure reading in his new Ford F-150. He said he had noticed when it wa s started cold, the oil pressure always came up to the exact same level and never decreased once the engine got warm, as his previous pickup had done. The pressure always remained at the exact same place no matter engine temp erature or RPM. The auto advice guy at PM said on his year/model of pickup, Ford had replaced the pressure transmitter with a pressure switch with a f ixed resistance. When the switch closed, it would always deflect the oil pr essure needle to the same location. In other words, an idiot light. As far as I've seen, no other auto manufacturer ever pulled one like that. Saved t hem what? $1.50 a truck? So, here you are doing 70 on the interstate all da y and one or more cam bearings are starting to go. From personal experience , that's always a gradual decrease of oil pressure. By the time the oil pre ssure gauge on your P.O.S. Ford pickup drops to zero and the backup idiot l ight comes on, the engine has been operating way too long on insufficient o il pressure and is likely already trashed. A guy I worked with had a new Fo rd pickup. I read him the column and he said,"That's just the way my truck acts!". Now I don't know if they still practice this world class chicken^&* (, but I've had my last Ford.

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les. I can tell you, though, that eight years is more or less the industry benchmark these days, and when you dig into their technical literature, you 'll find that ten years is a frequent target for the latest treatments.

ten-year terms I was talking about are for gloss -- and they aren't guarant ees.

g for gloss, usually for the clear coat, but in some cases for the base coa t with no clear coat (like Ford's new system, which they aren't using for c ars yet).

both bright and shiny, with no rust (except under the hood of the Focus, w hich has what looks like plain carbon steel fasteners under the hood. Stupi d, to save maybe 50 cents over galvanized or stainless.)

Ha-ha! That's a good one.

Stainless never used under the hood - nor Galvanized We used to use either electro-zinc or more commonlt cadmium plating - but it is virtually impossible to do cadmium plating in North America today with EPA rules. The choice is plain steel American bolts or Chinese Cadmium. What would YOUR choice be???

They have virtually ALL done it on at least one model, and it was not a cost saving measure, in the main. It was because they had customers complaininh about high cold oil pressure, or low hot idle oil pressure, and they were all wasting WAY too much time and effort trying to explain why it was "normal". To avoid class action lawsuits for faulty oil pressure they simply made a n "idiot guage". Looks like "higher content" than an idiot light.

"Garrett Fulton" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com... On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-5, Christopher Tidy wrote:

Here's how cheap Ford is. About 15 yrs. ago I was reading the latest Popular Mechanics auto advice column. A guy wrote in with a concern about his oil pressure reading in his new Ford F-150. He said he had noticed when it was started cold, the oil pressure always came up to the exact same level and never decreased once the engine got warm, as his previous pickup had done. The pressure always remained at the exact same place no matter engine temperature or RPM. The auto advice guy at PM said on his year/model of pickup, Ford had replaced the pressure transmitter with a pressure switch with a fixed resistance. When the switch closed, it would always deflect the oil pressure needle to the same location. In other words, an idiot light. As far as I've seen, no other auto manufacturer ever pulled one like that. Saved them what? $1.50 a truck? So, here you are doing 70 on the interstate all day and one or more cam bearings are starting to go. From personal experience, that's always a gradual decrease of oil pressure. By the time the oil pressure gauge on your P.O.S. Ford pickup drops to zero and the backup idiot light comes on, the engine has been operating way too long on insufficient oil pressure and is likely already trashed. A guy I worked with had a new Ford pickup. I read him the column and he said,"That's just the way my truck acts!". Now I don't know if they still practice this world class chicken^&*(, but I've had my last Ford.

=================

My 1991 Ford Ranger has the gauge package instead of lights and all but Oil are functional. The Oil gauge uses a pressure switch and a resistor that you can bypass if you install a variable-resistance sender.

I bought the $20 sensor and may install it if I have to remove the dash for another reason. However the gauge as-is instantly shows whether the engine has adequate pressure or not, and the dial face isn't graduated in pressure units.

Is there a reason other than cost for not using stainless hardware under the hood? I've been using it to replace broken plastic clips, though not graded steel bolts.

-jsw

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bles. I can tell you, though, that eight years is more or less the industry benchmark these days, and when you dig into their technical literature, yo u'll find that ten years is a frequent target for the latest treatments.

ten-year terms I was talking about are for gloss -- and they aren't guarant ees.

g for gloss, usually for the clear coat, but in some cases for the base coa t with no clear coat (like Ford's new system, which they aren't using for c ars yet).

both bright and shiny, with no rust (except under the hood of the Focus, wh ich has what looks like plain carbon steel fasteners under the hood. Stupid , to save maybe 50 cents over galvanized or stainless.)

Most underhood fasteners I've seen are conversion coated with zinc or some other phosphate. The bolts on my Hyundai have a black coating on top of som e kind of zinc. After 12 years it's gotten pretty fluffy and looks like ele ctrogalvanizing.

The Ford bolts look uncoated.