Modern car paint and rust

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 21:11:10 -0600, Ignoramus27375


That method is likely quite ecologically disastrous, Ig. Perhaps not as bad as cad, but using something which does not wash off would be better.
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:16:17 -0800, Larry Jaques

How about lanolin based underoil spray? Or vegi based. I prefer the lanolin - like Fluid Film, or NHoilundercoating, A friend operated an undercoating business for years, and he mixed lanolin and paraffin hot, and sprayed it on underbodies. Quite a few "proprietary" dripless underoil products have lanolin and no petroleum products.
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On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-5, Christopher Tidy wrote:

the 1990s, this changed - and quite suddenly. Does anyone know what specifi c changes were made to the paint composition and surface treatment? I can o nly find vague allusions in most articles.

Here's how cheap Ford is. About 15 yrs. ago I was reading the latest Popula r Mechanics auto advice column. A guy wrote in with a concern about his oil pressure reading in his new Ford F-150. He said he had noticed when it wa s started cold, the oil pressure always came up to the exact same level and never decreased once the engine got warm, as his previous pickup had done. The pressure always remained at the exact same place no matter engine temp erature or RPM. The auto advice guy at PM said on his year/model of pickup, Ford had replaced the pressure transmitter with a pressure switch with a f ixed resistance. When the switch closed, it would always deflect the oil pr essure needle to the same location. In other words, an idiot light. As far as I've seen, no other auto manufacturer ever pulled one like that. Saved t hem what? $1.50 a truck? So, here you are doing 70 on the interstate all da y and one or more cam bearings are starting to go. From personal experience , that's always a gradual decrease of oil pressure. By the time the oil pre ssure gauge on your P.O.S. Ford pickup drops to zero and the backup idiot l ight comes on, the engine has been operating way too long on insufficient o il pressure and is likely already trashed. A guy I worked with had a new Fo rd pickup. I read him the column and he said,"That's just the way my truck acts!". Now I don't know if they still practice this world class chicken^&* (, but I've had my last Ford.
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 08:29:44 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton

They have virtually ALL done it on at least one model, and it was not a cost saving measure, in the main. It was because they had customers complaininh about high cold oil pressure, or low hot idle oil pressure, and they were all wasting WAY too much time and effort trying to explain why it was "normal". To avoid class action lawsuits for faulty oil pressure they simply made a n "idiot guage". Looks like "higher content" than an idiot light.
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 15:45:18 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I was looking at the oil gauge in my Toyota truck and was a little concerned that it would show right at the lowest mark when idling. I wondered if maybe I should start to worry about the truck because it is a '95. Then upon reading the manual I find that proper oil pressure when idling is 3 lbs. Now I don't worry. Eric
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 16:19:58 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Can you immagine being the service manager having to explain that to half of the paranoid customers at a dealership? They'd be "calling you anything but a white man", convinced you were lying to them, just trying to put off repairs untill THEY had to pay because it was off warranty? THAT is why they invented the "idiot guage"
I went through that as a Toyota service manager many times. On a hot day the customer would come in complaining the OP guage was reading half a needle width lower - or after changing the oil - Or they'd come in complaing the oil pressure was too high and they were told by some backyard mechanic friend that it would cause the oil to get too hot, and waste gas - - -
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On Wednesday, February 22, 2017 at 3:45:19 PM UTC-5, Clare wrote:

:
in the 1990s, this changed - and quite suddenly. Does anyone know what spec ific changes were made to the paint composition and surface treatment? I ca n only find vague allusions in most articles.

ular Mechanics auto advice column. A guy wrote in with a concern about his oil pressure reading in his new Ford F-150. He said he had noticed when it was started cold, the oil pressure always came up to the exact same level and never decreased once the engine got warm, as his previous pickup had do ne. The pressure always remained at the exact same place no matter engine t emperature or RPM. The auto advice guy at PM said on his year/model of pick up, Ford had replaced the pressure transmitter with a pressure switch with a fixed resistance. When the switch closed, it would always deflect the oil pressure needle to the same location. In other words, an idiot light. As f ar as I've seen, no other auto manufacturer ever pulled one like that. Save d them what? $1.50 a truck? So, here you are doing 70 on the interstate all day and one or more cam bearings are starting to go. From personal experie nce, that's always a

your P.O.S. Ford pickup drops to zero and the backup idiot light comes on, the engine has been operating way too long on insufficient oil pressure and is likely already trashed. A guy I worked with had a new Ford pickup. I re ad him the column and he said,"That's just the way my truck acts!". Now I d on't know if they still practice this world class chicken^&*(, but I've had my last Ford.

So, you're saying GM, Chrysler and the rest are doing this? Do you remember where you read this information?
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 17:56:25 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton
Don't have to read it. I was a mechanic for many years. They've been doing it for years. I've worked on a lot of vehicles with the "idiot guage" including my last Chryslers and my 1885 Pontiac Trans Sport 3.8. Most of them can't even be converted to a full guage by replacing the sensor because they do NOT have a resistor in the circuit. The meter is designed to go half scale when the sensor is grounded.
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On Wednesday, February 22, 2017 at 11:22:10 PM UTC-5, Clare wrote:

I'll accept it if you saw it that much. Ford was the only one I'd known abo ut. I was an airline mechanic. We sure had nothing like that. Just my .02, but it seems like deceiving a buyer to sell him a car with an oil pressure gauge that is nothing but an idiot light.
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:39:46 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton

Hopefully the pilots aren't as "brain dead" as a lot of car owners/drivers. The ones I had the most trouble with were bloody engineers and hoity-toity "connoisseurs" who fancied themselves automotive experts just because they could afford to buy whatever crossed their fancy at the time. "MY porsche never had that kind of pressure fluctuation" (or insert Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, or whatever) after buying a new Supra or whatever.
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On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 12:15:16 AM UTC-5, Clare wrote:

about. I was an airline mechanic. We sure had nothing like that. Just my . 02, but it seems like deceiving a buyer to sell him a car with an oil press ure gauge that is nothing but an idiot light.

Most of the pilots were good guys. But you always had that 10%. "The Cactus Crew". You know the difference between a cactus and a cockpit? A cactus ha s all the pricks on the outside.
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On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 00:15:15 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Yes, let's hope that pilots and airplane mfgrs are building (and reading properly) complete/calibrated gauge units and senders. It would be a shame to send the 10,000+RPM spinny parts into the cabin at speed and altitude, cutting the plane in half because a sending unit said it still had oil pressure when it didn't.
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:39:46 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton

Well, I was an airplane mechanic too and if I remember all the instruments has colored marks on them to tell the Engineer when the oil pressure (for example) got too low :-)
As for the guys in the front seats, they had a big loud warning bell, buzzer. siren, to tell the drivers when they slowed down too much :-)
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wrote:

The Air France crash in the South Atlantic is a good example of the difficulty of predicting in advance what warning the operator should be given while their attention is on controlling the vehicle. Too much or misleading info can be worse than not enough.
http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/accidents/technicalities-closer-look-what-happened-air-france-447 "At one point the pilot briefly pushed the stick forward. Then, in a grotesque miscue unforeseen by the designers of the fly-by-wire software, the stall warning, which had been silenced, as designed, by very low indicated airspeed, came to life. The pilot, probably inferring that whatever he had just done must have been wrong, returned the stick to its climb position and kept it there for the remainder of the flight."
I read the CVR transcript in French and it supports the article's conjectures. The airliner descended approximately level in or near a Deep Stall, relatively stable in nose-high pitch but not in roll, which kept the cockpit crew fully occupied and confused about what was happening. The flight controls had less than their normal effect and the engines showed the expected full power RPMs though they weren't receiving the airflow to produce the corresponding thrust.
The pitot tubes had iced up in the storm's rising (super?)saturated air and given the pilots and flight control computer incorrect low airspeed values, initiating the problem, then probably soon thawed and showed similar correct low values of forward airspeed because by then the plane had gently stalled in Coffin Corner and was falling mainly downward, its forward indicated airspeed below the stall warning low cutoff until the captain tried nosing down, which was the proper way to break out of the stall and regain airspeed and control.
Similarly, a NASA engineer told me the inside story of Neil Armstrong's computer "failure" during the moon landing. The computer serviced all inputs in a program loop. There was a warning light kept Off by a hardware watchdog timer that the program would reset on each pass unless it hung. The timeout was comfortably long enough in all preflight tests but during the moon landing some added tasking extended the loop beyond the timeout and allowed the warning light to flicker On before the end of each loop pass, which Armstrong interpreted as the failure it was supposed to indicate, not just an unexpectedly high workload.
I knew something of the issue from designing industrial control panels and then watching mindless UAW drones misuse them. I learned that controls had to be not only idiot-proof but vandal-proof. Although I had no design input on the aerospace electronics I prototyped I paid attention to the discussions about their possible effect on cockpit situational awareness. There was a joke circulating at the time that the automated airliner cockpit of the future would contain a man and a dog. The dog was trained to bite the man if he touched the controls. The man's only task was to feed the dog.
-jsw
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On 02/23/2017 8:29 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote: ...

Not only aircraft; TMI-II became something more than just a turbine trip causing a reactor trip with the sidebar of a steam relief valve not reclosing automagically because the latter caused an anomolous level reading in the physically nearby pressurizer level. This was misinterpreted by reactor operators and they subsequently turned off the safety system HPI (high pressure injection) pumps fearing were going to overfill the pressurizer and if that were to happen, risk over-pressurizing the primary system itself. The incident progressed downhill from there until a fresh shift came on and the SRO on that shift recognized the problem and restarted HPI plus RCPs to restore primary coolant flow and begin the recovery process.
If the original crew had done nothing but let the control and safety systems do their job instead of intervening, the incident would have consisted of no more than an unscheduled trip and restart once the initiating fault in the transmission yard that was the initiating event. (They lost connection to the grid owing to transformer failure at full power (850 MWe) which left nowhere for the generator output to go so that initiated the turbine trip. System was designed to be able to handle a "full load rejection" trip, but owing to various other conditions, runback couldn't always be fast enough so a reactor trip could also be expected maybe half the time.)
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Neon John is the expert on that incident. I've discontinued my research on recent infrastructure accidents which could be mistaken for a search for exploitable vulnerabilities.
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On 02/23/2017 11:47 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote: ...

No idea who that might be; I was (nuke) engineer at the reactor vendor until the summer before the incident; had at the time just moved to Oak Ridge w/ small consulting firm; we were on incident response team via contract to NRC by 9AM the morning of the incident so I'm pretty-much familiar with both the specific reactor design and the incident...
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John DeArmond
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Sorry if I wasn't clear that I meant -I- don't know much about TMI, not you.
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On 02/23/2017 4:36 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote: ...

Ahhhh...gotcha' (now :) )...thanks.
Was only using the incident to agree with the earlier anecdote that the human often _is_ the weak link in the chain/loop.
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