New way to mess up soldering copper pipe!

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Greetings Gary, Once a pipe has been soldered it will need to be heated to a higher temperature because the solder alloys with the copper. I use an air/acetylene torch for this type of work because it is so much hotter than propane. The water is certainly a problem. One cure is to cut the pipe and stuff Wonder Bread in to stop the water. When the water is turned back on the bread will easily blow out. ERS

This is much more complicated than it needs to be.

I'd rather put them together while they're still cold... :-)

It's not necessary to flux twice, nor is it necessary to heat and solder twice. That just wastes time and and solder. This procedure works just fine:

1. Clean mating surfaces with sandpaper, emory cloth, or wire brush. Not steel wool. Wipe clean with a rag.
2. Apply flux to fitting and pipe with a flux brush, making sure that the fluxed area of the pipe is at least 1/4" longer than the depth of the fitting
3. Assemble fitting to pipe.
4. Heat the fitting -- NOT the pipe -- with a torch. Apply solder to the joint between pipe and fitting, on the side away from the torch. Continue applying heat until solder melts and flows into the joint all the way around.

I second this method.

I would also like to add:

1. After cutting the pipe, make sure to properly deburr the INSIDE edge of the pipe using an appropriate deburring tool.

Since this step does nothing to increase the integrity of solder joints, it is a step that many lazy, inexperienced plumbers seem to omit. But failing to remove sharp edges makes for extremely noisy pipes as onrushing water screams and squeals past these jagged protrusions.

doug - maybe your method works for you, but I had leaks when done that way, done my way the joints never leak - the problem with not tinning them first is that you can have some area of hte pipe that is not sufficiently clean and get no solder adhesion - if it's inside a joint you cant see it - if you tin first, then you can see it and fix it before you assemble.

Why not steel wool? I've used steel wool and never saw a problem.

Then you didn't do enough of something: not enough heat, not enough flux, not enough cleaning -- not sure what.

They don't leak my way, either. :-)

If you have some area of the pipe that is not sufficiently clean, then you didn't clean the pipe carefully enough. :-)

And if you clean thoroughly, and flux thoroughly, and apply sufficient heat and solder, it doesn't matter whether you can see it or not, you have a water-tight joint. But hey -- if your way works for you, by all means keep doing it that way. I just want to point out to any newbies reading this that your method is neither the only method that works, nor (by far) the easiest.

Leaves too many crumbs behind. Easier to clean up after sandpaper. Certainly doesn't impede making a proper joint -- just more effort, that's all.

I've been told to use steel wool rather than sand paper as it doesn't leave microscopic grooves in the copper which eventually lead to leaks, just what i've been told by someone that been doing it much of his working life.

Also I haven't seen mentioned here after the post mentioning the plumber trying to solder pipes with water in them the danger of steam explosions. I don't know whether it's an urban myth or not but I have seen here on RCM at least once before that a number of plumbers are killed each year from trying to solder pipes with water remaining in them.

This method would surely work. The only problem is that it would cost about $25,000.00 for a plumber to do even a small house this way. Much too complicated. There is no need to tin the joint before it is assembled if it is cleaned and fluxed properly.

Any grooves will be filled in by solder if done properly.

Steam explosions are a reality. make sure that the valves are open to allow the steam to escape.

Phooey. They'll fill with solder anyway.

I don't know about killed, but I'd not be surprised by a large number badly burned. Steam explosions are real. Always solder with an open end somewhere, if water is present in the pipes.

Even better is to use scotchbrite pads, they remove almost all the oxide film and leave the surface of the pipe and the fitting smooth, a slight dab of flux wiped around the pipe and fitting is all that is needed. Less flux on both the inside and outside of a pipe is always a good thing from the long term corrosion point of view.

Sounds like a good tip. I'll give that a shot next time. Thanks!