OT: 45 ACP ammo

Steve B wrote:


They won't be illegal in California.
Under the settlement, Chrysler will end the use of factory-installed lead wheel weights in vehicles sold in California by July 31, 2009. In addition, wheel-weight producer Plombco Inc. of Canada will end shipments of lead wheel weights to California by the end of this year. Producers Perfect Equipment Inc. and Hennessey Industries, both based in LaVergne, Tenn., will stop shipments to California by the end of 2009.
"We are pleased that the court has approved settlement of this matter so that we can move forward with our aggressive plans to eliminate the use of lead wheel weights in our products," a Chrysler spokesman said. "By the end of this month, we expect that all of the vehicles we produce will be equipped with wheel weights made from alternate materials -- 11 months ahead of the schedule set in the settlement agreement in California."
Lead wheel weights have been under attack for several years by environmentalists. They were banned by the European Union in 2005 and are being phased out in Japan and Korea. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is sponsoring a voluntary initiative to reduce the use of lead wheel weights but has not banned them.
Goodyear and other big tire makers are already phasing them out, as are all the major automakers.
"For environmental reasons, this is the direction the industry is going," said a spokesman for Goodyear, which has 83 company-owned tire stores in California.
http://www.ceh.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id23&Itemid $3
--
John R. Carroll



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So, painting the weights wasn't cost effective?
Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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Wes wrote:

How would painting the weights prevent them from being ground up and dissolved into the water table? That, apparently, is what happens and is why the EU, Korea, Japan and others have banned them.
Anyway, it would seem that what Gunner posted - that they would be illegal A/O Jan. 1 - is a bunch of crap. What a surprise....
--
John R. Carroll




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Ground up? Recycled yes.
Smelters and flaking lead paint seems like a major source.
http://www.urisa.org/Journal/protect/Vol14No1/griffith%20pages.pdf
I wonder how long it will take for RoHS type laws to outlaw bullets?
Wes
-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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Wes wrote:

"Estimates show that 500,000 pounds of lead is released into California's environment annually from wheel weights that fall off of vehicles. Lead from wheel weights can also be tracked into people's homes, especially those who live near busy streets. Wheel weights can be made of other materials (for example, steel and zinc), and lead has been banned in wheel weights in the European Union since 2005."
http://cehca.nonprofitsoapbox.com/storage/cehca/documents/wheel_weight_settlement.pdf

Were #500,000 of lead to end up in the water supply here the same way wheel weights do, the problem won't be bullets affecting the drinking water.
California is an important agricultural resource for the US, Wes. We export billions of dollars of food every year so water quality is important to us.
--
John R. Carroll



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Something seems wrong with that number. A 3 oz weight is huge and < 1 oz seems to be normal in my experience.
So for a given vehicle there could be 4 to 12 oz of weight. The population is 36 million.
Total number of cars, trucks, semis 243M for the US
Say 24.3M based on percentage of population and for that figure to be true, then all the wheelweights on 2.7 to 8.2% of california vehicles fall off each year.
Seems a bit fancifull to me.
Wes
-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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Wes wrote:

Is that allowed?
Hey!
Are we allowed to do that anymore?
Thinking!
Shame on you, Wes!
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cavelamb wrote:

OK, but Chrysler says the average is 2 Oz.

There are nearly 50 million passenger vehicles registered in California counting PNO's. He could just have read the study linked to in my post. Perhaps he even did.
(50,000,000 X 4 X 2)/16%,000,000 pounds of wheel weights on the road at any one time.
500,000/25,000,000= .02 or 2 percent. Yeah, I'd say that one in 50 wheels here loses it's weights. Hell, two percent of the vehicles in California are probably STOLEN every year. LOL
--
John R. Carroll



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One in 50 wheels would mean that one car in about 12 loses a wheel weight annually. That seems pretty high to me. My estimate would be more like one car in thirty or less loses a wheel weight in the three or four years that a tire lasts. So my estimate is at least an order of magnitude lower.
Dan
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EPA estimates that 1.6 mllion pounds of wheel weights are lost from wheels in the US annually. I think they're getting their data from several studies, including one report by the Ecology Center that summarizes several other studies:
http://www.epa.gov/waste/hazard/wastemin/nlfwwi.htm
http://www.leadfreewheels.org/LeadWheelWeightDocs.pdf
--
Ed Huntress



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snipped-for-privacy@krl.org wrote:

On what factual and researched basis would you make your claim? Were you also an indigent paperboy, traipsing across the uninhabited areas of America, collecting refuse for sale? Caltrans reports eight ton miles of garbage per year on Interstate 5 between Los Angeles and CA-99 alone. That's 8X76X2000 = One Million Two Hundred Thousand Pounds of crap.
Do your own homework.
LOL
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John R. Carroll



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My estimates are based on the number of wheel weights that have come off cars that I have driven. That and if the number of wheel weights lost was as large a number as the government estimates, someone would have designed a better wheel weight.
We could conduct an informal poll of RCM readers. How many of you have experienced a loss of a wheel weight in the last five years? And how many cars does this cover?
I personally can not remember ever having a wheel weight lost from a car I have owned and operated. Granted it is not something that I would make a special effort to remember. Which is why I specified five years as the time frame to consider. I am reasonably confident that I have not lost any wheel weights from any of the cars I have owed during the last five years.
The government sites with estimates on wheel weight loss did not provide how they made their estimates. I expect they did not do any analysis of the accuracy of their estimates, but did note that one of the sites revised their estimate from 5000 tons to 1600 tons. That is not something that makes me believe that a lot of effort was made to obtain an accurate estimate.
In short, I have more faith in my estimate than in one made by the EPA. If the EPA provided how they arrived at their estimate, I might change my mind.
Dan
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On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 06:05:20 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@krl.org"

I can remember losing (1) wheelweight in the aprox 8 million+ miles Ive driven in the past 35 yrs. And along with the wheel weight..I lost the entire front end of that red Rambler station wagon Id just bought..when I t-boned the Mustang in Gaylord Michigan in 1974.
And I picked it up.
Along with the piece of blown open COPPER brake line the seller had plumbed the car with.
Gunner
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766
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After a trip to Makino for training, I lost the drivers side wheel when it departed from my 1991 Ranger 4x4. I'm sure it had a wheel weight. Never found tire, the balancing weights, or my Warns locking unit. If anyone needs one NIB locking unit (have to buy them as a pair) let me know.
If you ever lose a wheel at 70 mph and find yourself driving on your brake rotor, wait until you come to a complete stop after shifting in to neutral. Touching the brake pedal even at low speed puts one hell of a flat on your rotor. YKHIKT
Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:41:21 -0800, Gunner Asch

Copper tubing on the brakes? Damn, that's Premeditated Murder evidence there - car was rigged for a brake failure, anything that old was single circuit. Not If it fails, WHEN it fails.
Did you ever track down said seller and have a little discussion about his repair methods and materials selection? I wouldn't have been all that polite in the same situation.
--<< Bruce >>--
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On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:40:56 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman

I didnt..but the Michigan State Police sure did. As well as my insurance company.
I dont learn all the details..but they made it rather unpleasant for him.
Gunner
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766
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Another question - does the fact that a wheel weight falls off mean that it somehow immediately enters the food/water chain?
My own experience is that wheel weights seldom (in my case never) fall off. How many have encountered a sudden imbalance of a wheel and discovered the wheel weights gone?
Regards,
J.B.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news:io6lj5tn3visf8umepkb1fbj28s1lpvlld@ 4ax.com:

None that I've ever heard of in Texas but, in the Peoples' Republik of Kaliphornea (where the Highway Dept. INSTALLS potholes), anything may be possible...
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Might happen in bad neighborhoods? Wheel weight theft, along with copper and air conditioning units?
Which can be reduced, by proper application of .45 ACP ammo, to get back to the thread. If you can find ACP at the store, of course.
--
Christopher A. Young
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I suggest you try walking down the shoulder of a busy highway for a 100 yards or so. I bet you will easily find several lead wheel weights
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