OT - Halliburton and Taxes

And what about the "services" that are provided? Many of these are nothing but a waste of our tax dollars, whether gleaned from the individual or the corporation. The War on Drugs wastes billions, and mostly provides "service" to the prison industry and posturing politicos. The "services" provided to illegal immigrants, such as interpreting and multilingual paperwork to make it easier for them to obtain healthcare, etc. Multilingual ballots, driver license forms for those too lazy to learn the official language. What next, street signs in 37 languages? If not for the waste of some of these types of things, maybe we all would be a bit better off, no?

I give no apology for my political incorrectness, I am a white boy with no idea when or if any of my ancestral countries celebrate their independence or festivals to the foolish. Nor would I expect anyone to make allowances if that were to change.

michael

Uh huh. Ya think? Sure.

Chuckle. I do believe it was I that gave the linguistics education. Doesn't happen often. For me, one of the most fun things about reading usenet posts is finding typos that completely change the meaning of a sentence. This wasn't a typo but fun for me anyway. Now, don't get insulting! Sue

The easiest way to understand this is to consider why there are no Ciscos in, say, Afghanistan or Somalia.

Ed Huntress

Yep. Sounds like of like the work you want. But it isn't. :)

Jim

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Good point. Then you would advocate that *everyone* should stop paying taxes. I support that position. But in the meantime, the government is still going to be demanding their due.

Fair's fair, they should pay what they owe, same as you or me.

Jim

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You seem to have an excellent grasp of the English language. Would you please provide a translation of your above sentence for someone (me) who appartenly doesn't? :o) Sue

Ed,

Here is my entire post, for the sake of context. Please reread.

And what about the "services" that are provided? Many of these are nothing but a waste of our tax dollars, whether gleaned from the individual or the corporation. The War on Drugs wastes billions, and mostly provides "service" to the prison industry and posturing politicos. The "services" provided to illegal immigrants, such as interpreting and multilingual paperwork to make it easier for them to obtain healthcare, etc. Multilingual ballots, driver license forms for those too lazy to learn the official language. What next, street signs in 37 languages? If not for the waste of some of these types of things, maybe we all would be a bit better off, no?

I give no apology for my political incorrectness, I am a white boy with no idea when or if any of my ancestral countries celebrate their independence or festivals to the foolish. Nor would I expect anyone to make allowances if that were to change.

michael

I don't spend much time wondering about why or not there are no Ciscos, per say, in Afghanistan, Somalia, or wherever. Nor do I see why my tax dollars are spent on the things I mentioned. And of that, I do think about occasionally. I haven't followed this thread, just took a look when I noticed some particular poster from whom I usually see a good common sense remark or a hilarious quip. (Please note no use of fouling letter n before hilarious. {;o) So, I likely dropped in when the fly drifted into the eddy.

michael

One that has not found a suitable descriptive political acronym for myself. Maybe I'll start a new party. Bring your own goodies.

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Hmm. Looks OK to me...

Jim

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Nor do I. But I *still* have to pay the damn things. And I see *no* reason why somebody else should be able to simply opt out of them. This includes corporations.

They're receiving whatever benefits can be atributed to our govenment, so they should be responsible for its funding, just like every single individual in the US.

Jim

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Ok, I've read it twice now. And my response is the same.

You were responding to Jim's point about our system of taxation and infrastructure, and your response was about specific taxes that you think are a waste. My response to you, which jumped over several stages of my point and which got right to the bottom line, is that, without a strong system of taxation and the resulting infrastructure, you get Somalia. They may have taxes, but they haven't been applied to infrastructure. It's the infrastructure you need, including everything from universal education to emergency medical care to government oversight of financial markets.

So, as with any complex system based on democratic politics, it's full of inefficiences, waste, and so on. That's the price of democracy. And the price is well worth paying. That's why we have the kind of life that we have. That's why we aren't Somalia.

I could argue with any of your examples, for the sake of arguing, but I won't. The only reason to do so would be to point out that there are differences of opinion about these things. And also that efficacy isn't the only value in our system. For example, you could argue about gay marriage until the cows come home, but you'd never touch on the subject of efficacy, because that isn't the point. Arguments over questions of morality is the point. And that's why we have a democratic political system. You can't separate it from our economic system, or from taxes, but that isn't the only thing it's about.

Ok? Here's a thought that may clear up what I'm getting at. Everybody "knows" that we have far too many administrators in public schools, and that they're a terrible waste of money. The only problem is, the best business managers and consultants in the world disagree with us. I don't have the study handy but one was done sometime in the '90s by a big management consulting firm, and they determined that the number of administrators per worker in the schools was just over half the ratio in business. Their conclusion was that public schools are very inefficient, and that one of the reasons is that they have inadequate management to manage the task.

So much for conventional wisdom. The same can be said about the drug war. I happen to agree with you about that particular point, but not everyone does.

If you accept the system as one that's beneficial overall, you have to accept the fact that there are going to be inefficiencies, things that are decided on grounds that have nothing to do with economic efficiency, and that it's all part of the package. I wouldn't be surprised if you agree with this, but your response to Jim missed the point entirely if you do.

And that's why I said what I did. The multiplicity of words above, which I was trying to avoid, are why I leaped to the conclusion.

Ed Huntress

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:59:56 GMT, Sue brought forth from the murky depths:

I need to build a nice dictionary stand for my Webster's Hernia Edition monster so I can keep it out and handy. Like yours, my Collegiate is next to my monitor and well worn. I have never been lexicographically challenged but have found that I'm recently less sure whether an "a" or "i" goes at the end of words like "compatible" and "indomitable". It's hell getting old. (I'm 50 ;)

Ditto.

----------------------------------------- Jack Kevorkian for Congressional physician!

Why is that?

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

I posted a later message to Michael in this thread that may answer it for you. If not, let me know.

Ed Huntress

Then someone here needs new glasses. I see that you altered "work" so I assume you really meant "like of like". What the hell does that mean? "Kind" of like? Sue

LOL. I used to have a Random House Hernia Edition but used it a few too many times as a booster seat for small children. I need to get another.

Same here. There are words I used to be able to spell with ease and I keep having to look up the same words over and over.

Sniff. You're a youngster yet. I turned 58 yesterday. And, yes, it's hell but better than...... Respects, Sue

I guess you might have figured I post and drink at the same time. I would tend to hind my natural tendency towards dislexia (especially transposing digits, what an ailment for an engineer!) but this was probably just the week's

This is why us metalcraft folks just tend to, well, read what the other guy meant, not what they wrote.

I do find myself 'typing ahead' which is to say I find my fingers typing the word I'm thinking of, not the word that should come next. Because in the case above I substituted "like" for "kind" I was probably working about two words or so ahead in my mind. The workword mistake was just plain sloppy typing.

I will say though that like machining, which finally taught me to do arithmetic, posting to usenet has finally accomplished what my 7th grade typing teacher could not, namely actual touch typing.

Jim

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Well you did manage to get it all spit out in the end, Ed.

Thank you for typing out, what I was thinking. I was afraid I would have wound up with my keyboarding all twisted in knots as I've already done once tonight.

One of the things I was avoiding mentioning in my reply was the entitlement taxes that citizens pay now. Things like medicare and social security. I was going to harp on how corporations should be paying those now too, as they make up a big share of what individuals pay, and are quite regressive as well.

I recall a time in the mid '80s when I actually maxed out my SS contribution towards the end of the year. Well they sure fixed that one. No more.

But my point is, that corporations *do* pay into Social Security for their employees. So it is right, and it is fair, that they (corporations) should be shouldering their own fair share of taxes.

Now if they are already doing this for some kind of taxes, why not insist that they contribute the way individuals do, for *all* of them?

Jim

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LOL

That seems to be the case in all ng's. But, since we were discussing words I'd figured that you would be a bit careful. Especially when you corrected 1/2 of your original error. I really thought I must be missing something. It does happen.

I tend to be a perfectionist when it comes to typing things for public view. I don't know why this is as I'm sure as hell not a perfectionist in anything else. Sometimes I miss typing, spelling or grammar errors and am thoroughly embarrassed.

I would strongly advise that you not seek her out and prove how proficient you've become. Sue