Spoken like a true chauvinist pig. What a pathetic autdated point of view. This attitude has "kept women in their place, where they belong" for centuries.
Tell it to all the women who graduated from MIT, all the researchers at Genentech, Carly Fiorina, and a string of hundreds if not thousands more women.
You need an attitude adjustment as far as the abilities of girls and women is concerned.
Abrasha
No problem here (cable modem); it may depend on which version of Flash you're running (no sound here), or browser clash, or access limits.
Way cool, speff! I particularly liked "Hoag's object" and the "dust globules", not having seen those pics before.
Thanks bunches.
Mark L. Fergerson
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:58:04 GMT, Abrasha brought forth from the murky depths:
Bzzzzzzzzt! Wrong. I'm the kind of male chauvinist who opens doors for people (male and female) and says "please" and "thank you" when proper. You read a lot into my statement that was simply not true, Abrasha. Shame on you. I neither tried to "keep her in her place" nor discouraged her particular choices. I encourage people to go after whatever their interests are. What I don't approve of is pushing someone into something they don't want to do, and that goes equally for men/boys and women/girls.
And I say "More power to 'em!" They don't represent the majority choice of women. That's what I meant by "not usually". I'll bet that if you asked the dozen top toy dealers what the break was on scientific and industrial toys (chemistry sets/telescopes/microscopes, etc.), you'd find a lot more boys than girls buying them, though the trend is changing.
No, you need to learn to become less Politically Correct and a lot less judgmental, dude. Say, did you recently do work in the "Diversity" division of the L.A. school district?
"Why, some of my best friends are women." he chided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------- A PSYCHOLOGIST looks at everyone -else- ||
Political correctness Gerry :-)} London, Canada
I liked Inishtearaght, Co. Kerry, Ireland a but better - larger island to get lost on.
Martin
Gunner
"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the "lions". Christopher Morton
Now the big question is..how many of them have stayed with the hard sciences?
Gunner
"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the "lions". Christopher Morton
A few. I do work with some of them.
But the real question is, do you get around and talk to
*any* young folks as a matter of course? If so, then you probably realize that a) there are not many girls interested in hard science, or technology in general, but oddly enough, that deficit is matched by a lack of interest in those same subjects - by boys.Nobody cares about this stuff any more.
Thanskgiving: at the BIL's house, he was getting buttonholed by his niece and the niece's boyfriend, about their car. The BIL is a mechanic, owns his own successful business.
Anyway the questions that the 19 year old boyfiend was asking made it abundantly clear to me that car mechanics, and the general technological outlook on life, are simply not taught, not encouraged, not done any more. All I could think of saying was 'kid, by the time I was your age, I couldn't get the grease out from under my fingernails any more.' But I kept my mouth shut.
So in this regard, it seems like males and females of the species are indeed wired - exactly the same nowadays.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
Thanks Spehro -
The pix are extraordinary!
Yes, most definitely ... I can see that with two young boys of my own. One of them being gentle and sensitive, the other being loud and boisterous. If I were to treat them the way it was done for ages, I would be in a heap of trouble, and the kids would have a hard time too.
... and many of the notions that we (including me) have had about boys and girls are also hopelessly outdated, and have kept both boys and girls, men and women "in their place". Abrasha
Junior is training co-ordinator for an IT company, after running the service dept. in a computer store franchise. When he got his first R/C car kit, I sat him down to assemble it exactly following the manual. After full assembly, I suggested that now he was free to make whatever modifications he could think up, knowing that he could almost always go back to the original design. Before he got his first PC, he read a rather thick book on maintenance and upgrading PC's. A couple years ago he bought a car plus the factory service manual. He has left me so far behind that the only time he needs help is when it takes a BFH to do what needs done! Gerry :-)} London, Canada
I should mention here, that my sister is degreed in the hard sciences. After taking the golden parachute from Detroit Edison after 20 odd years ..she is now doing animal rescue work. She is quite mechanically inclined and she was the mechanic and pit crew for several of her boyfriends even in highschool, in snowmobile racing.
The comment I made was not intended to be a flame against women, but as a matter of reality, its been in my experience that few women stay with the hard sciences. My mother had a degree in Aeronatutical Engineering. She never used it. Shrug. Neither ever indicated much resistance from men, just amazement for the most part.
Gunner
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy. However, 4 out of 5 US murders are committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?" -- Andrew Ford
"BFH." Dating yourself with this phrase. "Big Flaming Hammer", correct? Had to use one myself a few times.
Mike Eberle> >
Helped second son "press" a wheel bearing outer shell out the other day - two "whirlwind"propane torches, 2" pipe with 5# axe laid flat for a striking surface for the 8# hammer Gerry :-)} London, Canada
More than centuries, since the beginnings of humanity. The PC "everyone has equal abilities" nonsense we're experiencing now is an aberration.
Gary
Whether one is male or female, black or white, young or old, short or tall, plain or beautiful, that someone is first and foremost an individual. When it comes to that individual's interests, ambitions and abilities, the rest is irrelevant . Surely that should be self-evident but it often is not.
Laurie Forbes
I don't know the statistics but over the years I've worked with a bunch that were science minded in aerospace. All I can say is if you find one that is interested, they can be very good.
I raised one. Riding in the car with her and her mother is interesting. They will be busy with relaxed girl talk, then we pass a construction site. Tiph will get quiet, her eyes focus on the site, her head turns to follow it. They go back to girl talk.
If you ask her what she was looking at you will get an amazing data dump, especially if it is a bridge or large building. Her specialty is dynamic wind response of tall buildings - like 50 stories or more. She has been #1 in every graduating class she was in including her Civil Engineering class at Cal Poly. That means a lotta guys finished no better than second. She is just entering the job market, she turned down a full academic scholarship plus stipend to work on a Ph.D. because she wants to design things, and she is full of energy ...
Fitch
If you get on a fast connection to do some downloading, go to the NASA web site. If you poke around there you will find some truly amazing pictures.
Fitch
Yes! I love the page where you can zoom into earth to a variety of spots on the planet. One takes you from outer space to the Hollywood sign. Very cool stuff.
In news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com, Baphomet typed:
It was probably worth all the effort, but what about this talk I hear that we could do as well from the ground today?
===================BEGIN QUOTE==================== File: C:\JIM\DOWN\DORSAI.QWC From: Pitt!kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov! To: Rusha Subject: Building WF/PC-2 Date: 03-12-1993 16:32 BBS: DORSAI Conference: 168
From pitt!arc.nasa.gov!usenet-space-news-request From: pitt!kelvin.Jpl.Nasa.Gov!baalke (Ron Baalke) To: snipped-for-privacy@ames.arc.nasa.gov Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 16:12:00 GMT
From the "JPL Universe" March 12, 1993
Bold measures result in quick turnaround for design, building of WF/PC-2's mirrors.
By Diane Ainsworth
When push came to shove in December 1991, and JPL's Dr. James Fanson was asked to investigate the feasibility of building three moveable fold mirrors for the new Wide Field/Planetary Camera, he decided to go for broke. "There was no tried-and-true way to solve the problem we had discovered with the Hubble Telescope's primary mirror," he said. "We discovered that correcting the imaging performance of the Hubble would require 10 times more precise optical alignment than it did for the WF/PC-1 camera. So we set out to build a set of articulating fold mirrors inside the camera that we could adjust from the ground to realign images. "We were up against the tightest deadline we've ever had," Fanson said. "We needed to design and build the articulating mirrors in less than 10 months, and we had to build the control electronics in less time than it normally takes just to procure the parts! "But JPL took some bold measures to ensure that our work was high priority, and every procedure was completed as quickly as possible," he said. "If ever there were a case-in-point of JPL's ability to build something faster, better and cheaper, this was it." Fanson assembled a team of the best talent at JPL, and they hit the ground running. "We quickly realized that to meet the performance requirements for these new mirrors, we needed to use new technology ceramic actuators, which were developed by Litton/Itek Optical Systems for the Department of Defense," he said. "The JPL procurement people got Itek on contract with us in less than four weeks." Fanson and his team next identified the solution that would correct and bring images into focus from the Hubble Telescope's
8-foot-diameter (2.4-meter) primary mirror. "Basically what's going on inside the camera is that we're canceling the error in the Hubble primary mirror with a matching error intentionally polished onto a mirror in WF/PC-2," he said. "This cancellation is straightforward in theory, but is made difficult in practice because of the large magnitude of the error. It's like trying to subtract a large number from another large number and coming up with zero. This only works if the Hubble is exactly aligned with WF/PC-2, and that's the job of the new articulating fold mirrors." Light entering the camera is split into four quadrants by the pyramid mirror before reaching the relay secondary mirror. The newly shaped secondary mirror, which is the size of a dime, is where the cancellation of the Hubble error actually occurs. Light then continues on to the camera's charge-coupled devices (CCDs), where the image is formed. Fanson, along with Bob Bamford and Paul MacNeal of the Applied Technologies Section 354, decided that they would have to replace the "fixed" -- unmoveable -- fold mirrors in the camera with articulated, adjustable mirrors that could be tipped and tilted to make sure the light beam fell precisely in the middle of the secondary relay mirrors. Not only would that alignment capability be necessary after the vibrations and jitters of launch and installation, Fanson said, but it would be a means of guaranteeing on-orbit alignment in later months. "The trick was to come up with a design that would fit in a very tiny space, less than nine-tenths of an inch thick and 1.6 inches in diameter," he said. "The parts are so small that they were assembled under a microscope." Designing the assembly tooling and procedures was the responsibility of Al Delgadillo of the Mechanical Systems Development Section 352. Changes in mirror position are accomplished by each mirror's tilt mechanism, which is like a three-legged stool, Fanson explained. The legs are composed of tiny ceramic actuators that lengthen when a voltage is applied to them. "By controlling the lengths of the three legs, we can control the tip and tilt of the mirror," Fanson said. "We are talking about very small motions -- the total stroke of the actuators is equal to the length your hair grows in 15 minutes." The amount of voltage applied to the actuators is programmed by computers at the ground operations facility at Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. After assembly at JPL and Itek, the mirrors went through environmental testing. When specifications were met, they were delivered to the WF/PC-2 integration and test team in early July-- with two days to spare in the schedule. Meanwhile, Tom Radey of the Imaging Systems Section 381 was busy building an extremely stable set of control electronics to command the 18 actuators in the three articulating mirrors. "We made it in the nick of time, but we made it," said Fanson, who was awarded a 1992 Lew Allen Award for the articulating fold mirror effort. "We came in under budget and on time." Launch of the Hubble Space Telescope servicing mission, STS-61, is tentatively scheduled for Dec. 2, 1993, aboard the space shuttle Endeavour. Installation of the new Wide Field/Planetary Camera will occur on the second day of astronaut extra-vehicular activities (EVA), said Michael Devirian, WF/PC-2 deputy program manager and head of servicing and operations. Adjustments to the camera and other instruments will take about a month, Devirian said. Ground-controllers will have to wait three weeks before they can turn on the coolers to bring the camera sensors down to about minus 80 degrees Celsius (about minus 112 degrees Fahrenheit). Then they will begin taking photographs, analyzing the images and fine-tuning the new articulating fold mirrors. ### ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | snipped-for-privacy@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | It's kind of fun to do /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | the impossible. |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | Walt Disney
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 * Origin: NSS BBS - Ad Astra (412)366-5208 *HST* (1:129/104)
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