OT: skills shortage

How about having the neighbor call you to see why the lights dont work in his converted garage..and finding the entire conversion had been wired with (cheap) 300 ohm TV twin lead..including the outlets he was running the 2500 watt space heater on.....

I handed him a hammer..and told him once the sheet rock was gone, Id help him rewire the room properly.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

I look inside electrical boxes in my house on occasion. If I see gobs of former screwdriver, I know that the former owner of the house was in there and that something needs fixing. One of his better ones was to hook up a 3 way circuit. Usually, the line voltage comes from the circuit breaker, and is sent down one of two travelers to the other 3 way switch. He hooked it up backwards, with one circuit breaker on each traveler and the result going to the other switch. The other switch took the juice and lit up one of two lights, depending on which position it was in.

Michael

D Murphy wrote in news:Xns9720EFCE384AFBW12BU20MU38SY@130.133.1.4:

In my years of doing residential electrical work, i've ran up on so many dangerous messes that I can't even remember 1/3 of them. What bothers me the most is running up on one of those messes that was done by a supposed 'professional electrician'. Professional my ass.... If you can't do the job neatly, by code, and and take pride in your workmanship, you shouldn't have the 'professional' tag. As seldom as I do residential work anymore (2-3 years between jobs), the State Inspector still knows when he is inspecting one of my jobs as soon as he sees the work. I am rarely there when it gets inspected, the owners tell me that he walks in, looks, tells them who wired the house, checks 2 or 3 things, and signs the permit. One of them asked him how he knew who did the work, since my name is not on any paperwork. He said "His workmanship is so far above what anyone else in the three county area I inspect produces, it is immediately apparent." I am very proud of that compliment.

In 40 years I have yet to see a home owner do his own wiring correctly yet. What bothers me most though is the inspectors letting the licensed electricians crappy work slide. The NEC actually does say "All work shall be performed in a neat workmanlike manner" In my book that gives the inspector tremendous power to fix up the messes. Instead they look the other way.

Gary H. Lucas

When I built my current shop 16 years ago, I had to explain 3 phase electricity to the county inspector. Wired two other shops for friends and the inspector didn't even come out when told that I had done the wiring.

And "matching" transformers to the city electric guys. To their credit, the city has improved vastly. The poor guy that is head of the department now has the nearly impossible task of correcting 40+ years of bad work.

He deserves it.

He cant do it.

There isnt enough coffee and donuts to get him through.

"Gary H. Lucas" wrote in news:9Rlkf.407$605.163@trndny09:

100% agree Gary, There is absolutely no excuse for sloppy work. How many panel boxes have you seen that look like a rats nest? I've seen plenty, all done by supposedly "Professional Licensed Electricians". Not a single wire numbered, a blank circuit listing on the door, 8" of paper wrap wadded up where they trimmed the sheath, sheaths of all lengths sticking into the box, just an absolute sloppy mess, and it's even more appalling if you happen to see what's behind the sheetrock. It really doesn't take that much more time to do it correctly and in a neat and professional manner. It does however, take more initiative, attention to detail, effort and patience...skills that are sorely lacking in todays tradesmen/women. Sadly, pride in craftsmanship is a long lost art on the majority.

When I wired my shop I flew my Father-in-law up to help me. He is a retired electrician. So, having him show me the right way resulted in an excellent job. He wanted to use conduit for the main wire runs but I insisted on 4 inch square wireway. He choked on the price but it was my money. Afterwards he agreed it was the best way for my shop. A local hardware store chain was going out of business at the time and I had bought all the wire in one store. 3 shopping carts overflowing with wire. For 200 bucks. Counting just the 10 gauge wire I paid less than 2 cents a foot. Because of all the different colors in the deal I was able to use a seperate color for each circuit. My Father-in-law is real neat and kind of a perfectionist so all the wiring came out very neat. When Puget Power came out the guy told me it was one of the nicest wiring jobs he'd ever seen. I called my Father-in-law to tell him and made his day. We hung the receptacle boxes every 4 feet from the wireway. The wireway itself is mounted 4 feet from the floor. This has turned out to be perfect for a machine shop. Plenty of places to plug in and no danger of getting chips swept into the receptacles. Most cords don't even touch the floor. And the wireway is so easy to add other circuits to. Just remove the cover and lay the wire in. ERS

????? "different colors"? Are you saying that you found Romex with colored sheaths, or that different brands of cabling had enough color difference in the sheath that you could use that as a color code or what?

electricity to the county inspector.

What qualifies these people to be *inspectors* then??

when told that I had done the wiring. Are YOU a licensed electrician or does your legislation allow for non-licenced people to carry out work?

the city has improved vastly. The poor guy that is head of the department

What qualification would HE have to have to head up that department?

Just for interest, what supply voltage do you folks use? How is it obtained from your "supply authority"? Where is the metering done?

Nationally we use a single phase, 220 - 240 V, 50Hz (AC) supply. Most residential applications conform to the above, however if required a three phase, 380V supply can be installed.

Most domestic applications have a 60A main circuit breaker with the same rating on the supply authority side (just a slower tripping curve)

Some of my High Voltage Substations are supplied with 66kV from the supply authority, this is then transformed down to whatever is required (standard is same low voltage as above [380V - 400V three phase] or [220V - 240V single phase] (the difference is the allowable tolerance]

Would be interesting to hear what you folks use...

PS, just thought I would add that regulations specify that "live" conductors are red or brown, neutral must be black and earth must be yellow and green.

Cheers.

Bodie .

"Bodie" wrote in news:dmvdce$9b0$ snipped-for-privacy@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net:

I am non-licensed, but trained for years by a Licensed Journeyman Instrument Electronics Technician who was the toughest boss I ever had. (My Dad) Legislation allows a homeowner to do his own wiring, or be responsible for the wiring. The inspector is thorough, but has inspected enough of my work over the years to know it is to code.

Supply voltage for the area I am in is 240V single phase, 60 hz AC.

3 phase supply in this area is 480V Delta. Metering is done at the residence/business.

In this area, a 200A minimum service for residential is highly recommended by the Electrical Cooperative.

Lines around here range from 500kVA to 11.2kVA. Major transport lines will be 500kVA, secondary will usually be 22.4kVA, and distribution at 11.2kVA. Step-down transformers are provided at residences to step down from 11.2kVA to the 240V.

Here Neutral is White, earth must be green, green/yellow striped or bare copper, supply conductors are black or red for AC.

Anyone remember the famous Honeywell Emmit Forgetmenot computer?

In this particular case, the city had just instituted a "building inspecton" requirement and the "inspector" position. An alcoholic carpenter's helper was the only one to apply for the job.

Not anymore, but in another lifetime I was a licensed industrial/ commercial electrician; required by my employer at the time for my position as facilities maint. engineer.

I'm not sure of his qualifications other than he came from the LCRA (Lower Colorado River Authority), and those people seem to know their shit.

"You're not from around here, are you?" :> Meaning you're not in the USA, right?

My case, electricity is generated by the LCRA and delivered to their substation at 120KV. Dropped to 77KV for distribution by the city. Dropped to 480V (3 phase only) or 230/120V and metered at the service entrance of the customer.

Neutral conductor is normally white. Ground wire is green or labeled as ground. Current conductors can be any color other than white or green. If white is labeled as "hot" (as in three way lighting using romex) it can be used as current conductor.

I helped a friend of mine wire up his shop. He was going to run romex around tacked onto the ceiling. I cringed at the idea he had.

I showed him how to run emt and pull thhn wire. He had a local electrician he knew to put in the 3 phase service. I helped him wire the rest of the shop. I had to twist his arm to put in a reasonable amount of 110vac outlets around the shop as well as some extra 30 amp 3 phase ones.

The electrical inspector took one look at the job and signed it off. I haven't done much work in 20 years but rule no. 1 is that if you make it neat you'll be way ahead of the game. Most of the stuff we did was commercial and industrial. Our biggest problem with electrical inspectors in NJ was to get them to show up on time. We would bribe them with coffee and donuts to show up on time otherwise there none left when they came late.

John

Not in the US of A, that is correct.

Located in sunny Cape Town, South Africa. Please to meet you, I'm sure.

Bodie.

Hehe. The electrical profession is HEAVILY REGULATED here. No actual inspectors but licenced electricians have to "sign off" Certificates of Compliance affirming that the installation complies with National Electrical Wiring Regulations, and that all the materials used also conform to National Quality Standards and that this can all be proven with Certificates of Authenticity.

The electrician signing the CoC is then liable for any failures that relate to non-compliance. And I agree, working neatly is the first thing one should do.

Thanks for the input.

Bodie.