OT-Taxing the rich

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Ah, yes, the world according to the Stuttering Messiah. You're a living indictment of public education, Gunner. d8-)

At the end of Bush II's last budget, the national debt was $11.9 trillion. Almost all of that was incurred during Reagan's and the two Bush's terms.

Right now it's $14.2 trillion. So your statement, "And now in just over 2 yrs..the Obamassiah has created debt 5x all those that went before have created" is not only ridiculous, but sad.

Reply to
Ed Huntress
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=========== This is true but only under one condition, namely that Congress rolls over again like a lap dog to get their belly rubbed and their doggie treats [campaign contributions] by increasing the national debt limit.

While no one knows at this point, there appears to be enough legislators with common sense that know the borrowing has to stop to prevent consideration of any legislation to increase or even eliminate the debt limit. Once that particular money tree is chopped down, many critical areas such as undeclared wars, corporate wellfare/subsidies, "green" [as in the color of money] energy projects and make work infrastructure projects will automatically correct themselves as there will be no more money to fund them.

The absolute power/secrecy of the FRB must also be broken to prevent currency dis basement through quantitative easing and/or monetizing the debt combined with a mandated yearly GAO audit. It should be noted that even if Congress refuses to increase the debt limit, the FRB can evade many of the intended effects by purchasing the huge amounts of federal debt outstanding thereby flooding the market with ersatz dollars and inflating much of the debt away, including those social security and other trust fund bonds.

-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Reply to
F. George McDuffee

The government does enforce IP. Customs does confiscate counterfeit goods coming into the country when they find them. The government just shut down a bunch of wesites they claim were infringing on U.S. IP.

Best Regards Tom.

Reply to
azotic

I'm sorry, did you want to read it again:

Mr. Obama?s budget said 2011 will see the biggest one-year jump in debt in history, or nearly $2 trillion in a single year. And the administration says it will reach $15.476 trillion by Sept. 30, the end of the fiscal year, to reach 102.6 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) ? the first time since World War II that dubious figure has been reached.

In one often-cited study, two economists have argued that when gross debt passes 90 percent it hinders overall economic growth.

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Is the point you are trying to emphasize that we should expect economic growth like we haven't seen since WW2?

Reply to
jim

Suuuurrreee you do!

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Yep, Jimmy's one of them! Another clueless poser.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

The clueless poster is Gunner, and you're mostly in the same category. Gunner said Obama has run up 5 times as much debt as the presidents before him. In fact, Reagan and the two Bushes ran up 5 times as much as Obama.

Do you need to see the numbers again, or is the arithmetic too much of a strain?

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Yes, coming into the US. That doesn't get a patent holder any protection in Russia or anywhere else. To get that sort of protection you'd need US Federal Agent's scourubg the world operating in foriehn and international courts.

Patent enforcement is expensive. Infringer's know this.

Reply to
John R. Carroll

Correct, when you have to tell a customer that thier widget is counterfit and you wont repair it they get pissed at you and you tend to lose that customer.

Best Regards Tom.

Reply to
azotic

Oh gee, why not attack my family AGAIN while you insult me? Asshole!

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Leftists are all-in. They'll never get another chance on their agenda. America will eliminate them from any position that they can ever do so much damage again and they know it. Obammy is a community agitator that has no leadership skills, no business sense and no hope of a second term. Too bad the entire world has to go through this country's failed socialist experiment. The leftists reek of desperation and flail at any attempt at reason. They simply lack any honor, just look at the twit leftists here.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

It looks like the Dollar will soon lose it's position as the world reserve currency and printing money will no longer work and hyperinflation is probable. Who do we thank for that?

Reply to
Tom Gardner

I never attacked your family, asshole. You decided one day to take a point I made and assume I was referring to you, and then you flipped out. Just a few days later, in a conversation with someone else, you made the same point I had made -- about whether kids who inherit vast wealth are entitled to it -- without even noticing that you said EXACTLY the same thing I said.

You just decided to jump on the new national sport and take offense. It had NOTHING to do with you or your family, as I made abundantly clear. You had just told me enough about your background that it was obvious I wasn't talking about you. It was just your lame excuse for going off on a rant.

And you know it.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Jesus. Gunner, that's 2.6% more than GDP, not 102.6%. And national debt does not relate to "growth" or to GDP. What you're thinking about is DEFICIT, not DEBT. And the deficit is on the order of 10% of GDP.

(Is it possible to teach remedial arithmetic to a guy in his mid-'50s? Fundamentals of Economics, maybe?)

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Ah, let's see. Robert Triffen ("the Triffin Dilemma") predicted this in

1960; it was predicted again in 1968 with the collapse of the London Gold Pool; again in 1971 when the US went off the gold standard; again in 1980 by Henry Kaufman ("Dr. Doom"); etc., etc., etc.

Doomsaying is an economic enterprise in itself, Tom. Rather than wring your hands, you should write a book. They tend to be hot sellers.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

FWIW -- It does not appear that there is any one person or cabal responsible, rather rampant "group think" across all branches of government and private industry, based on grossly excessive amounts of "the way things ought to be," "things are different this time," and "the way I think things should be," rather than the way things are, with the long-term best interests of the majority of Americans as the priority objective. The policy makers of government and private industry simply became too parochial, too isolated, and too insulated, ending up believing their own propaganda and press releases, i.e. perpetual motion money machines don't exist.

Some recent articles of interest on this point:

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Separate data disclosed in December on temporary emergency- lending programs set up by the Fed also showed big foreign banks as borrowers. Six European banks were among the top 11 companies that sold the most debt overall -- a combined $274.1 billion -- to the Commercial Paper Funding Facility.

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The danger now is that when QE2 ends in less than 12 weeks? time, global markets will be rocked by a surge in Treasury yields. Since mid-2009, QE has been used to buy up, along with dodgy mortgage-backed securities, swathes of US government debt.

This is how the Obama administration ? and the British Government too - has been able to keep spending. Once the Fed exits the Treasury market, though, not only will the fiscal pump-priming stop, but US debt-service costs could balloon.

America is now shouldering declared federal liabilities of $9,100bn - making it, by a long way, the world?s largest debtor. On top of that, US government debt is set to rise a jaw-dropping 42pc by 2015, according to official estimates.

Already, $414bn of US taxpayers? money was spent on sovereign interest payments during the last fiscal year - around 4.5 times the Department of Education budget. And that was with yields kept historically and artificially low by QE.

Global investors are increasingly wondering what happens when the money printing stops and those debt service costs rise. More and more interest is being shown in the fact that America?s total sovereign liabilities, including off-balance sheet items such as Medicare and Medicaid, amount to $75,000bn ? no less than five times? annual GDP.

It is against this backdrop that the Obama administration and Republicans in the House of Representatives are now arguing over miniscule $30bn spending ?cuts? ? a row so vociferous that it could see the US government ?shut down? at the end of this week, leaving government contracts unserviced and state employees unpaid. This would do serious damage to America?s image as a credible borrower, focusing more attention on its fiscal weakness and its financial vulnerability when the money printing stops.

So beware of the siren voices claiming that shares on Wall Street will keep rising. Beware of anyone who is so deluded that they point to surging oil prices as ?evidence? that the US - the world?s biggest oil importer by far, of course - is ?fit and healthy? and ?ready to rock?. Yet that was the cry among many Wall Street denizens last week. ?Oil is rising ? we are saved!? I paraphrase, but not a lot.

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That?s because the great American job machine has been destroyed by a reckless free-trade policy.

Since the end of the cold war, and accelerating after NAFTA in 1994, Washington has pursued a globalized economy made possible by ever-expanding ?free? trade agreements. This policy is a major factor in America?s increasing inequality, our rising indebtedness, community abandonment, and the weakening of the industrial sinews of our national security.

About to crumble The good news is that this global order of free trade is about to crumble ? within the next 10 years at most. The unsustainable American trade deficit alone makes this a near-certainty.

-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Reply to
F. George McDuffee

Perhaps you could state what you think the pertinent part is.

You act as if the federal budget for this year is some big secret that you have uncovered.

The administration didn't pass the budget. Congress passed the budget and the figures are well known to anybody who is paying attention.

You haven't said anything that suggests you have a clue what may or may not contribute to economic growth The problem with US economic growth is not govt debt. The problem that impeded economic growth is private debt. Private debt had risen to 300% of GDP in 2007 If you are weak at math, that is 5X as big as Govt debt.

And then all of a sudden (for a variety of reasons ) everyone decided they had too much debt So what happens when everyone at once puts all their disposable income into paying off their credit card, car loan and mortgage? The answer is there is no money left to run the economy Banks go belly up, businesses close and people are out of work

For the last 30 months total debt (private debt + govt debt) in the US has steadily declined. The last time that happened was 80 years ago in the Great Depression. The simple fact is the increase in government debt is being swamped by the decrease in private debt. And what that means in simple terms is that vast amounts of money that normally drive economic growth are being used to pay down old debts.

That has nothing to do with the government. That is what the economy is doing which is beyond the control of the government.

That sounds like gibberish. Try formulating a question that makes some sense if you want an reasonable answer.

The debt is neither good or bad. What is dead certain is that if the govt starts pulling money out of the economy to pay off its debts there will not be any economic growth any time in the near future

Reply to
jim

You are incapable of having a discussion or an argument without resorting to personal insults. I have ONLY EVER responded in kind in ANY argument, for you it's the first resort. You're supposed to be a wordsmith yet you fall into the gutter at the drop of a hat. A number of people agreed with me that you conducted a personal attack on me and my family yet rather than bothering to try to apologize for a "misunderstanding", you stayed in the gutter. Is that because your whole philosophy is wrong and you know it or are you just that arrogant and hateful?

Reply to
Tom Gardner

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

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Interesting article! Do you think that the pressure to unseat the Dollar as the reserve currency will succeed and will it devastate the US like I think it will?

Reply to
Tom Gardner

yes that appears to be the incoherent version of what you posted earlier.

Your welcome

Reply to
jim

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