OT-News Flash- April 19th

BOSTON, - Guard units seeking to confiscate a cache of recently banned assault weapons were ambushed on April 19th by elements of a para-military extremist faction. Military and law enforcement sources estimated that 72 were killed and more than 20 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement. Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal revenue offices.

The governor, who described the group's organizers as "criminals," issued an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government's efforts to secure law and order.

The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed wide-spread refusal by the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed assault weapons. Gage issued a ban on military-style assault weapons and ammunition earlier in the week. This decision followed a meeting in early April between government and military leaders at which the governor authorized the forcible confiscation of illegal arms. One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out that "none of these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and turned their weapons over voluntarily."

"Government troops initially succeeded in confiscating a large supply of outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily-armed extremists who had been tipped off regarding the government's plans.

During a tense standoff in Lexington's town park, National Guard Colonel Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered the armed group to surrender and return to their homes. The impasse was broken by a single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right-wing extremists. Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange.

Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units. Colonel Smith, finding his forces overmatched by the armed mob, ordered a retreat.

Governor Gage has called upon citizens to support the state/national joint task force in its effort to restore law and order. The governor has also demanded the surrender of those responsible for planning and leading the attack against the government troops.

Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and John Hancock, who have been identified as "ringleaders" of the extremist faction, remain at large.

Gunner

Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error"

Reply to
Gunner
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So far, the assault-style weapons, and .50 cals and some ammo have been outlawed, confiscated, and destroyed. Local governments have used tactics of buy-backs, to acquire legally owned firarms. Government seems to like to put the guilt on the gun owner and his/her family members, including the children, that firearms are bad. Generation after generation will be will be slowly brainwashed, guns will go unmaintained, ammuniton will corrode, and sheople will follow their dictator.

:/

Reply to
Halcitron

The assault weapons in the above article were the dreaded 70 caliber.

Gunner

Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error"

Reply to
Gunner

Your conclusions about the gradual "phase-out" of civilian owned weapons appears to be correct. However even more important is the motivation and psychology of the citizens. The "right to keep and bear arms" is of importance only if the people are willing to do so.

An additional factor is the rapidly falling real incomes for the typical or average citizen. I know of at least two people who have sold their guns because then needed the money to put food on the table for their family. The latest BLS news release shows the trend:

(1) Real average weekly earnings [adjusted for inflation] fell by

0.3 percent from February 2005 to March 2005 after seasonal adjustment

(2) Average weekly earnings rose by 2.6 percent, seasonally adjusted, from March 2004 to March 2005. After deflation by the CPI-W, average weekly earnings decreased by 0.5 percent.

This data does not take into account the increased work week and/or unpaid overtime, increases in local, state and federal taxes/fees, and reductions in retirement and medical benefits.

You can see the entire report (and much background information and historical data) at

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GmcD ==========================================================

Reply to
F. George McDuffee

Nor does it take into account the recent changes in bankrupcy laws, which make it harder for the average joe to deal with things like massive medical debts.

The bankrupcy changes and the new OT rules brought to you by your (republican) federal government in action.

Jim

Reply to
jim rozen

News Flash - April 20th

BOSTON - Responding to an urgent call from the governor of Massachusetts, regular army and air-force units this morning descended on the town of Lexington with M1 tanks, Apache and Blackhawk helicopters, and a small squadron of close-support fixed wing aircraft. The sudden, pre-dawn attack met with no effective resistance; and the infantry that followed later in the morning completed "mopping up" operations with astonishing speed and efficiency. A spokesman for the military later said that the former town of Lexington, now little more than smoking rubble, should be cool enough to bulldoze and bury within just a few days. He also hinted that there may have been a survivor or two among the townspeople; but that's not yet been confirmed.

At issue in this conflict is the right of civilians to keep and bear arms. Asked for comment, the commander of the military forces would only say that he's reluctant to discuss the political issues involved, and prefers to concern himself with only practical matters. He said that "Unless these civilians are willing and able to keep and bear tanks, aircraft, and the massive pool of manpower and skill that it takes to use those things, their 'rights' are more theoretical than useful. If people spent as much attention to cleaning and maintaining their voting habits and their government, rather than their rifles, things like this might not have to happen."

Film at 11.

KG

Gunner wrote:

Reply to
Kirk Gordon

descended

aircraft.

within

involved,

maintaining

The above story assumes the US military would fire on their civilians. That might happen with a single aircraft, flying silently, and headed for DC or any major population center.

Our military is not trained to blind unthinking obedience, but to weigh the legality of their actions.

:/

declared

assault

extremists

ordered

state/national

governor

identified

Reply to
Halcitron
70 caliber! What the hell is that? That's nearly 18 mm. It would kick you into the middle of next week to fire it. That's just a cannon with a stock!

Reply to
Tom Miller

Could be a 12 ga. shotgun.

I shoot a 12 ga. often. So far - no time travel.

-- Robert Sturgeon Summum ius summa inuria.

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Reply to
Robert Sturgeon

70 calibers were for wussies!

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"The musket was of .75 caliber, smoothbore design, and weighed about

10 lbs. Soldiers were drilled constantly on formation firing and tactical movement, but only fired several times per year. The effectiveness of the musket was not impressive. Major George Hanger, who fought in the American Revolution, described it thusly: "

Strider

Reply to
Strider

"Brown Bess", muzzle-loading, flintlock ignition. :=)

Intrepid

Reply to
Intrepid

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:56:16 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner spake:

--megasnip--

ROTFLMAO!

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Reply to
Larry Jaques

I'm sure that's true. In fact, the restraint demonstrated by US troops under fire in Iraq seems to suggest that our military is often just the opposite of aggressive or trigger-happy. But if civilians fired on the military, as at Lexington, MA in 1775, the legality of the situation might not be quite as pleasant as your average gun-toting rebel would hope. David Koresh and company learned that lesson. And, in a sort of slow-motion, strung out way, so did Timothy McVeigh. Those situations didn't include military troops in the literal sense of that term; but they still represent examples of how/why the government is never going to be outgunned.

KG

Reply to
Kirk Gordon

You must be joking.

Two guys in a assault Capri, with one rifle between them, just about shut down Washington, DC.

Just let your imagination expand out of the envelope a bit and imagine what 50 such teams might do.

Strider

Reply to
Strider

Its the evil assault weapon known as the Brown Bess.

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And the folks in those days tended to be around 5' 6" tall.

(black powder firearms hardly kick)

Gunner

Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error"

Reply to
Gunner

It's interesting what sentiments can do to our outlook on things. If law enforcement officials take precautions to protect against "rebels" and the potential for danger, that's a rebel victory almost as good as actually shutting down a national capital. But when the government forces actually kill or imprison some of those same rebels, it's not a victory for the government, or a serious loss for the rebel cause, since there are lots more rebels where those came from.

If you were a chess player, I suspect you'd sacrifice your queen to capture one of my pawns, and then claim that you'd won a great victory by hurting me and teaching me a lesson. Sebsequent moves might demonstrate otherwise.

KG

Reply to
Kirk Gordon

Repost from another newsgroup:

A few shots are fired at an APC, on a rainy Friday night. A tac squad rolls to the area, which happens to be in a trendy area of downtown. The troops are dismounted, and patrol the area. No enemy is seen. As they remount and move out of the area, a platter charge decimates the lead and rear vehicles. The troops dismount in disorder, and are blown to pieces by impromtu claymores located in city sewer drains in the curbing. The few surviving troops are shot dead by several snipers. A silent group of men and women rush to the scene, stripping the dead of their uniforms, arms, ammunition, and stripping the vehicles of their crew served weapons. They remain on the scene, no more than 5 minutes, then blend back into the background.

Repeat this scene a few dozen, or a hundred times.

As the troopers are being killed, a gunship flies overhead, powerless, as the buildings are too tall, and to fire on the area, will decimate the trendy buildings and businesses, which will indeed cause their owners to turn against the military. ROEs are confusing and contradictory...

As the troopers were being killed, their CO was eating dinner, with the Mayor of the city in a fancy restaurant. As he raised his fork..a

168gr International enters the junction of his skull and first vertibrate, passes though, and severly wounds his XO sitting across the table. The investigators later determine the shooter fired from over 600yrds away.

Repeat a few dozen times

As the trucks and APCs sit waiting in the fueling depot, a single trooper, places charges of C4 beneith several blivits. It seems his folks were killed by Government forces in retaliation for a rebel attack in Ohio. The resulting explosion, 15 minutes later, decimates the fueling depot, and incinerates 75 men and women, and destroys a number of APCs, trucks and other vehicles. The unknown trooper is later thought to have been incinerated , but has actually deserted, taking his skills, training and equipment with him, and has become a rebel.

Repeat a few dozen times.

A Reserve unit, from Tennesee, is ordered to fire on a suspected rebel position, in the middle of a small sleepy town. They refuse. When MPs are sent to enforce the order, the troops turn their weapons on the MPs, and then disburse, taking their ordnance with them.

Repeat a few dozen times.

A Government leader, a strong Federalist, dead set against the Rebels, is blown to bits while having breakfast with his family. Ordnance used was later found to have been looted from troopers killed in an ambush,

3 weeks before.

Repeat many dozen times.

A pair of old Vietnam vets, sick, dying of cancer, hold up in a heavily occupied office building overlooking a State capital. They are on different floors, but are linked by FRS radios, cell phones and the offices own phone system. They each have a 308 deer rifle, with copious amounts of ammunition. Being well trained at one time, and having read all the sniper manuals, have constructed their hides well, inside of unoccupied offices. Using X10 video cameras cheaply and commonly available, they now control the accesses to their hides, with improvised command detonated muntitions. They keep up a reasonable rate of fire, killing several dozen State government workers, including the Governor, and the chief of the local Anti Rebel forces. Attempts to storm their position, result in over 50 deaths. A gun ship is called in, and the building is rocketed and shot to kindling, killing a number of innocent civilians, leaving vengeful families behind.

Repeat several hundred times.

A fast freight train, moving troops and supplies, derails over a deep canyon in Arizona. Deep 4x4 pickup tracks are found in the area during the investigation. The truck, found later, was stolen from a local dealership.

Repeat several dozen times

A concerted attack on switch stations and high voltage transmission towers throughout the Western states, causes the entire grid to go down, leaving 85 million people without power or heat during a record coldspell in Febuary. Munitions used were found to be stolen from military stores, armories and also many homemade and improvised AFO devices were indicated.

Repeat a dozen times.

Farmers in the Midwest, decide that their crops are not going to be planted this year in protest. A wheat, potato and corn shortage develops in the cities. Government troops are dispatched to attempt to force farmers to plant. The various agents and troops, are not seen or heard from again. Hogs seem to be growing well though.

Repeat a few hundred times.

Food riots break out in several inner cities, in mid summer. Heavy handed commanders order hundreds of men, women and children to be machine gunned. Human waves of people storm the troops, dragging them from their vehicles and positions, and they are beaten, shot and stabbed to death. Responding gunships are taken under fire from squad served weapons, manned by black and latino veterans, whom recruit the local gang members into rebel milita units, providing training, arms, intell and direction.

Repeat in most cities.

Need I go on? Sound like a nightmare? It would be. Sound like our current military, police and draftees could handle such a population? Think they would win?

Never think, that a rebel force, composed of motivated, vengeful, citizens, many of whom are trained veterans, will fight a set piece battle against technologically superior forces in a rural area.

Most of it, will be in urban, heavily populated areas, where each fence sitting civilian killed, will leave a legacy of revenge for their survivors. And that revenge will be directed towards ANY government worker, uniformed or not. Wanna bet..governmental workers will stop showing up for work? Wanna bet. that those whom do show up..will not be sabotaging governmental efforts to rein in the populace? Particulary those..whose folks were burned to death, when their apartment house was fired on by heavy weapons, to attempt to supress a single sniper? A sniper whom turned out to be a very old Korean war vet, with a Garand, whom lived in the building for years, whose wife died a year before..and he has nothing to live for..except his dimly remembered Oath..to protect and defend the Constitution, from all enemies, foriegn and domestic?

Think long and hard, about our modern military attempting to root out the minnows.

Read the book, Unintended Consequences, and enlarge the scale a thousand fold.

Consider the number of Western States, already mad as hell at the government, whom will simply take a vote, and succeed from the Union. Think of Texas, becoming the new capital of the rebels. Think our military can even put down a revolt OF Texas? Think again. Think B52s and A10s, will be of any value in Cincinnati, Huston, Detroit, Bakersfield, etc etc etc etc? Think those aircrews are gonna drop daisy cutters on Mom, Dad, Uncle Pete? How many do you think, will drop those daisy cutters elsewhere? DC, for sure will get pasted. Wanna be a congress critter working there? Wanna be a congress critter thinking about going home after a session of Congress? Knowing he/she will be running a gauntlet, with his/her face and name well known? Not to mention, his home and familys address well known?

Nope..this has been wargamed many many times..and its someplace none of us wants to go..as it will make the First Civil War, look like a rugby scrum in comparison. And the government forces will indeed loose in the end. And the end..would be much quicker than one would think.

Never think..that the Government would win. They can't. Everytime in our nations history, when the Constitution and the nation was threatened..the citizens have responded against the common enemy. And

250,000,000 armed, motivated and pissed individuals..is indeed a force to be reckoned with.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error"

Reply to
Gunner

Thank you. You are correct. You have just described the situation in Iraq to within an iota.

And I do think you are correct in the domestic implications, BTW.

100%.

Jim

Reply to
jim rozen

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:20:23 +1000, the inscrutable "Tom Miller" spake:

I fired a nice old rifle of similar caliber last year, though it was from a slightly earler era than the 1774 Gunner referred to. It was a matchlock made from a Vulcan 20mm (roughly 78 caliber) cannon barrel.

The owner/builder loaded it with a 0.8" chunk of lead after pouring a couple ounces of powder down the hole. It kicked less than a 30.06 rifle due to the old style powder vs. the nitro powder in use today. Cops at the range walked by and threatened to bust him for smoking pot. (The wick was, indeed, made from hemp.) 'Twas fun to fire!

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Reply to
Larry Jaques

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