OT-Taxing the rich



http://stutteringmessiah.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/thanks-obama-debt-now-equals-total-u-s-economy /
Ah, yes, the world according to the Stuttering Messiah. You're a living indictment of public education, Gunner. d8-)
At the end of Bush II's last budget, the national debt was $11.9 trillion. Almost all of that was incurred during Reagan's and the two Bush's terms.
Right now it's $14.2 trillion. So your statement, "And now in just over 2 yrs..the Obamassiah has created debt 5x all those that went before have created" is not only ridiculous, but sad.
--
Ed Huntress



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On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 12:19:07 -0700, Gunner Asch
<snip>

<snip> ==========This is true but only under one condition, namely that Congress rolls over again like a lap dog to get their belly rubbed and their doggie treats [campaign contributions] by increasing the national debt limit.
While no one knows at this point, there appears to be enough legislators with common sense that know the borrowing has to stop to prevent consideration of any legislation to increase or even eliminate the debt limit. Once that particular money tree is chopped down, many critical areas such as undeclared wars, corporate wellfare/subsidies, "green" [as in the color of money] energy projects and make work infrastructure projects will automatically correct themselves as there will be no more money to fund them.
The absolute power/secrecy of the FRB must also be broken to prevent currency dis basement through quantitative easing and/or monetizing the debt combined with a mandated yearly GAO audit. It should be noted that even if Congress refuses to increase the debt limit, the FRB can evade many of the intended effects by purchasing the huge amounts of federal debt outstanding thereby flooding the market with ersatz dollars and inflating much of the debt away, including those social security and other trust fund bonds.
-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
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message wrote:

It looks like the Dollar will soon lose it's position as the world reserve currency and printing money will no longer work and hyperinflation is probable. Who do we thank for that?
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wrote:

Ah, let's see. Robert Triffen ("the Triffin Dilemma") predicted this in 1960; it was predicted again in 1968 with the collapse of the London Gold Pool; again in 1971 when the US went off the gold standard; again in 1980 by Henry Kaufman ("Dr. Doom"); etc., etc., etc.
Doomsaying is an economic enterprise in itself, Tom. Rather than wring your hands, you should write a book. They tend to be hot sellers.
--
Ed Huntress



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wrote:

FWIW -- It does not appear that there is any one person or cabal responsible, rather rampant "group think" across all branches of government and private industry, based on grossly excessive amounts of "the way things ought to be," "things are different this time," and "the way I think things should be," rather than the way things are, with the long-term best interests of the majority of Americans as the priority objective. The policy makers of government and private industry simply became too parochial, too isolated, and too insulated, ending up believing their own propaganda and press releases, i.e. perpetual motion money machines don't exist.
Some recent articles of interest on this point:
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=apaYu93WOJbQ <snip> Separate data disclosed in December on temporary emergency- lending programs set up by the Fed also showed big foreign banks as borrowers. Six European banks were among the top 11 companies that sold the most debt overall -- a combined $274.1 billion -- to the Commercial Paper Funding Facility. <snip>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/8423520/The-US-recovery-is-little-more-than-an-economic-sugar-rush.html <snip> The danger now is that when QE2 ends in less than 12 weeks time, global markets will be rocked by a surge in Treasury yields. Since mid-2009, QE has been used to buy up, along with dodgy mortgage-backed securities, swathes of US government debt.
This is how the Obama administration and the British Government too - has been able to keep spending. Once the Fed exits the Treasury market, though, not only will the fiscal pump-priming stop, but US debt-service costs could balloon.
America is now shouldering declared federal liabilities of $9,100bn - making it, by a long way, the worlds largest debtor. On top of that, US government debt is set to rise a jaw-dropping 42pc by 2015, according to official estimates.
Already, $414bn of US taxpayers money was spent on sovereign interest payments during the last fiscal year - around 4.5 times the Department of Education budget. And that was with yields kept historically and artificially low by QE.
Global investors are increasingly wondering what happens when the money printing stops and those debt service costs rise. More and more interest is being shown in the fact that Americas total sovereign liabilities, including off-balance sheet items such as Medicare and Medicaid, amount to $75,000bn no less than five times annual GDP.
It is against this backdrop that the Obama administration and Republicans in the House of Representatives are now arguing over miniscule $30bn spending cuts a row so vociferous that it could see the US government shut down at the end of this week, leaving government contracts unserviced and state employees unpaid. This would do serious damage to Americas image as a credible borrower, focusing more attention on its fiscal weakness and its financial vulnerability when the money printing stops.
So beware of the siren voices claiming that shares on Wall Street will keep rising. Beware of anyone who is so deluded that they point to surging oil prices as evidence that the US - the worlds biggest oil importer by far, of course - is fit and healthy and ready to rock. Yet that was the cry among many Wall Street denizens last week. Oil is rising we are saved! I paraphrase, but not a lot. <snip>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20110401/cm_csm/373900 <snip> Thats because the great American job machine has been destroyed by a reckless free-trade policy.
Since the end of the cold war, and accelerating after NAFTA in 1994, Washington has pursued a globalized economy made possible by ever-expanding free trade agreements. This policy is a major factor in Americas increasing inequality, our rising indebtedness, community abandonment, and the weakening of the industrial sinews of our national security.
About to crumble The good news is that this global order of free trade is about to crumble within the next 10 years at most. The unsustainable American trade deficit alone makes this a near-certainty. <snip>
-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
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message wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/8423520/The-US-recovery-is-little-more-than-an-economic-sugar-rush.html
Interesting article! Do you think that the pressure to unseat the Dollar as the reserve currency will succeed and will it devastate the US like I think it will?
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wrote:
<snip>

<snip>
IMNSHO -- the US dollar does not appear to be under any sort of massive coordinated attack, but rather is committing suicide.
The major US creditors such as the PRC, OPEC countries and Japan are losing massive amounts of purchasing power because of US dollar devaluation [QE], and will lose even more if the Dollar loses its reserve status.
To be sure there are most likely groups and individuals speculating against the US dollar and US denominated securities by shorting and/or derivatives, as Soros did against the UK Pound, but as the Godfather says, its nothing personal, its just business, and while they are planning to take advantage of the situation, they are not [directly] causing it to depreciate. Indeed the speculators have no need to act as Congress and the FRB are doing a very effective job.
One red flag [as in run, don't walk for the exits] will be a shift in OPEC oil pricing from US Dollars to Euros and/or Yuan or a big increase in international counter trade.
-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
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<snip>

Greed and stupidity go hand in hand. What would happen to these clowns in other countries? Forget the wrist slapping, dust off "Old Sparky" and just give then a LITTLE jolt!
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Perhaps someone (Ed's mafia friends?) could send their boys downtown to knock off the dealers and steal their stash, then "invest" all of it into the bankers in questions' veins. 3 birds with one stone, wot? Dealers, badassbankers, and drugs all off the streets at once.
Works for me.
-- Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary. -- Peter Minard
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Too bad that the era of consequences is long past. Oh well. I'm glad I'm old and won't live to see the new era of consequences...and bible thumpers think Sodom and Gomorrah were bad.
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Tom Gardner wrote:

That's interesting Tom.
The Bush administration took an imperialist stance, rooted in delusions of American exceptionalism. IOW, America decided to view itself as Charlie Sheen.
Because of America's tiger blood and Adonis DNA, the U.S. was too special to be understood by any normal country, so we decided to do strafing runs in our underwear before we had our first cup of coffee.
Karl Rove's secretive, post-reality, ideological hubris resulted in a credibility gap that the American political system has yet to recover from.
Dick Cheney's personal cornered-rat paranoia resulted in policies that ushered in a preemptive war on a sovereign nation -- and ever since, we are a nation that debates the merits of torture and lives in fear.
Neoconservative fiscal policies ushered in the fastest, most balls-to-the-wall economic calamities that have ever happened in America. American life, as a result, took on the morose character of the Bush administration: We became isolated, paranoid and morally bankrupt and ultimately broke -- a dry-drunk nation, in other words, that had totaled its car and lost all daddy's money.
The carnage we've been digging out from under for the last couple of years looks seriously like consequences to me.
--
John R. Carroll



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On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 10:39:27 -0700, "John R. Carroll"

======It all depends on who pays the consequences.
It does not appear for the most part that the people/organizations that "caused" the problems are paying the price, or indeed anything. From the viewpoint of America's "rich and useless," they have never had it so good. To be sure there were a few sacrificial scapegoats such as GMC, and Madoff, but the vast majority of people accountable are crying all the way to the bank, while the people they screwed over in the first place, take it in the shorts again and again.
-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
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F. George McDuffee wrote:

Not really. Consequences are consequences. 15 million unemployed American's is a consequence.

OK, but Tom siad we were living in an era without consequences. You couldn't believe that and have a pulse at the same time.
It could be worse and might be. Here is an analysis of the HR 4529, known to the public as the Republican budget that Congress will shortly adopt. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id114
--
John R. Carroll




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Sounds like a shure fire plan for democratic clean sweep in 2012.
Maybe they can pass a law that prohibits anyone with less than a million dollar a year income from voting before 2012.
Best Regards Tom.
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azotic wrote:

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Polling data in the 70's indicated that 52 percent of American's favored increasing taxes on those in the upper income brackets as the preffered method of dealing with budget shortfalls. By 2006, that number had rised to the mid 70's and when Congress passed the continuation of the Bush era tax cuts, fully 80 percent of those polled supported tax increases on the wealthiest American's in order to raise revenue and reduce deficit's.
The polling questionaire was formulated to determine the public's preference between tax increases or program cuts.
Actual events over the last thirty years mean either that people aren't going to the polls, that politicians aren't paying a price for thier failure to do the public's will or a combination of both. I don't dispute the polling data. Public policy and the result is a matter of historical fact.
Given the plain result of what governance in America has wrought in the first decade of the 21st Century you have to wonder who in their right mind would vote for any Republican candidate.
The Bush administration took an imperialist stance, rooted in delusions of American exceptionalism. IOW, America decided to view it self as Charlie Sheen.
Because of America's tiger blood and Adonis DNA, the U.S. was too special to be understood by any normal country, so we decided to do strafing runs in our underwear before we had our first cup of coffee.
Karl Rove's secretive, post-reality, ideological hubris resulted in a credibility gap that the American political system has yet to recover from.
Dick Cheney's personal cornered-rat paranoia resulted in policies that ushered in a preemptive war on a sovereign nation -- and ever since, we are a nation that debates the merits of torture and lives in fear.
Neoconservative fiscal policies ushered in the fastest, most balls-to-the-wall economic calamities that have ever happened in America. American life, as a result, took on the morose character of the Bush administration: We became isolated, paranoid and morally bankrupt and ultimately broke -- a dry-drunk nation, in other words, that had totaled its car and lost all daddy's money.
For their part, Democrat's have countered this assault by their political adversaries with little resistance and the sort of policy drift effected makes them equally guilty. Chuck Schumer can only be seen as a big L liberal if you ignore his voting record in the Senate and he isn't unique in his party. He's really just a Wall Street tool. Toothless financial reform legistlation is worse than nothing because it creates the illusion of reform in the absence of actual reform. America seems to have plenty of money for tax cuts but in a time of high unemployment and a need for tremendous infrastructure degradation, can't seem to come up with the money to put American's to work rebuilding the nations infrastructure to insure future prosperity.
What all of our current crop of political leaders share is their sources of funding. The Ryan budget reflects this. It also reflects the view from above of who our elected representatives are truly in office to serve in their calculated political judgement. America's middle class doesn't vote in large numbers and once the few do vote, they are ignored until the next cycle.
--
John R. Carroll




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Tom Gardner wrote:

China would line them up and shoot them.
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
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And then charge the family for the cartridge. My family would gladly buy a whole box sometimes!
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Tom Gardner wrote:

A lot of people would pay for a box or two.
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
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For you TOO! Some people don't like to be disagreed with.
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Tom Gardner wrote:

I was agreeing with you. :)
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
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