Propane conversion (some metal content)

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol. Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a

2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this, please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary

Reply to
Ivan Vegvary
Loading thread data ...

Ivan, If you're thinking of filling up your truck from a larger propane storage tank that you have such as one for a home furnace or stationary generator, beware. That isn't legal in to do Oregon, without paying the motor vehicle fuel tax. I checked into doing just what you propose a number of years ago and it just wasn't worth all the hassle (to me). The feds take tax evasion real seriously. YMMV, Paul

Reply to
42

You have two issues:

The BTU's are what drives the vehicle, the BTU's per gallon are vastly different between gasoline and propane. Lots of web pages, here are several

formatting link
propane is a fairly low density fuel, it's cost per btu is right in line with gasoline or diesel (historical diesel prices), your fuel economy is based on Btu's.

Gasol> Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck). >

Reply to
RoyJ

Also you will notice a BIG difference in mileage. One of the local propane dealers converted his service trucks to run on propane. I talked to him about 6 months later and found that he had pulled the conversions off. The trucks were getting about 15 MPG on regular gas and that number dropped to less than 13MPG on propane. He also said that they had less power. I also know a guy who did a conversion on a Silverado with the 5.3. He also took it back off because it was hard to find places that could legally fill the tank and the tank itself was in the way a lot, plus he noticed a 4 MPG drop in mileage.

Reply to
Steve W.

Just pay the tax and be legal, its less than gasoline.

formatting link
Best Regards Tom.

Reply to
azotic

I can't comment on costs in N. America but nearly all taxi's in Bangkok run on LPG. They use a conversion that allows them to use either LPG/Propane or gasoline by manually switching valve settings.

Based on Bangkok prices the taxi drivers tell me that using LPG their daily fuel cost is about half what it would be using gasoline.

The first LPG/cooking gas/Propane conversions I saw were Japanese taxi's at Yokota Air Force Base in the early 1950's and conversations with various operators, over the years, all mention the same subjects. Slightly lower power, but acceptable, a cleaner engine and cheaper fuel costs.

Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Reply to
Bruce in Bangkok

On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan Vegvary" quickly quoth:

IIRC, from working at Flynn's Frame and Collision in the 80s, the Chevy tow truck with a (350/propane) got worse gas mileage than the F-600 with the big (460?) gasoline engine. It also had a stinky exhaust. Newer engines would probably burn it better, but you also may have the problem of finding refueling stations. That big propane tank was at least twice the weight of the original gas tank, too.

Given my experience, I probably wouldn't convert. YMMV.

P.S: I wish I'd had the option for a hybrid Tundra last October.

-- Those who flee temptation generally leave a forwarding address. -- Lane Olinghouse

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Used to be real common around here but nobody does it anymore. Even the local propane supplier quit using it to run there trucks. Back when propane was $0.45 a gallon it made a lot of sense. You get less mileage, slightly less power, hard to find places to fill up, and a few other negatives most of which have been covered by other people. One positive side is longer engine life. It just runs cleaner and doesn't wash the oil film off the cylinder walls.

One interesting fact. Propane tractors used to have more HP than the gas equivalent. The reason was that they had a higher compression ratio.

Reply to
Wayne Cook

MY experience is second hand.

My ASS^*LE of a neighbor received a very nice older Chevy truck from his dad. The truck had both propane and gas. Here in AZ, if you have an alternative fuel vehicle, you get special plates and are allowed to drive in the car pool lane, which is a great luxury in Phoenix. So, what did the fool next door do... He got the special plates then pulled off the system. He gets to drive the car pool lane and does and then gloats about screwing the system. Two years latter, when the tags and inspection are do, he puts the system back on. Once he passed, off it came again. He has since sold the truck, minus the conversion and then threw out the conversion in the trash (I don't know what he did with the tank???). I truly dislike folks who break rules for their own gain. It took all I had not to drop a dime on this Idiot.

Reply to
Bob in Phx

Hi Ivan

A number of years ago I bought a truck/5th wheel combination from a lot in Sequim, WA. The trailer was a 24ft and the truck a '52 Ford that had been converted to gas/propane by a shop in Sequim (Eric's). MPG: using gas- solo ~12, towing ~10. Using propane - solo ~10, towing ~8. At the then prices of both fuels I was reasonably happy. Power wise, not so happy. The truck was rigged to switch between fuels with the flip of a dash mounted switch. So when we came to a long pull we'd switch to gas. Keeping things properly tuned was a real problem. Eric's was really good but a 2 hour drive away. I let a local shop do a tune and the mileage took a real beating. Dropped to 6mpg gas towing and on the same trip 3 (no that's not a misprint) three mpg on propane. They never could figure out what they did wrong. Sold the Ford and bought a Dodge/Cummins. (But that's another story) At today's fuel prices and present engine efficiency I wouldn't even look at a gas/propane conversion. Hope this helps

Bob rgentry at oz dot net

Reply to
Bob Gentry

Wayne Cook wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Are you _sure_ that they were running Propane and not Butane?

FWIW, the diesel-engine hot-rodders have turned to Propane injection to achieve the same kind of boost that the gas-engine hot-rodders get with Nitrous Oxide injection.

Reply to
RAM³

Bob, thanks for your reply. Yes, it has helped, along with all the other comments above. Propane does not look like a wise option.

Ivan Vegvary

Reply to
Ivan Vegvary

Another factor in the decline of this conversion is the complexity of an OBD II vehicle (anything built since 1996). In the days of distrubutors and carbs, this was a fairly easy conversion. That's not the case with computer managed fuel and ignition.

Reply to
Jim Levie

From what I was paying for propane - it was at the Therm price. So gasoline or oil or water or propane - different price, different power and the like. The price was that about what premium gas would cost.

I'd find out more facts before I spent money to change.

Some day it might be the only game in town but now - not sure.

Martin

Mart> Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck). >

----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----

formatting link
The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups

---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

I have worked with Propane conversions and dual fuel conversions on vehicles. Used to be there was no road tax on propane for vehicles in Ontario. Now there is. The price advantage is almost gone. The installations require frequent inspections and certifications. Propane powered vehicles are not allowed in many tunnels or underground parking areas. Propane is heavier than air so collects in low spots in event of a leak. Very wide flamability limit, and therefore explosion hazard in case of a leak - this is why so many valves are required in propane vehicle systems.

For dual fuel you will use more propane than gasoline due to lowere energy density.

In most states you will be charged with evading road tax if you run non-taxed propane as a vehicle fuel.

In cold weather you will almost definitely need to start on gasoline unless you get a liquid injection system.

** Posted from
formatting link
**
Reply to
clare at snyder dot ontario do

LP tractors in North America ran Propane. They DID run higher compression because Propane has a base octane (knock index) rating of

115. In europe Butane was more common than propane. ** Posted from
formatting link
**
Reply to
clare at snyder dot ontario do

Move to Utah or wait a few years

CNG is the future..... Read this recent article, $.63 a gallon today..... There's a number of ventures into natural gas systems for automotive use. The local utility has a few CNG units on the road now.

formatting link

Build*lots* of nuclear power plants. decrease home energy use by

20% and get Detroit to build CNG cars then tell OPEC to find another buyer for their oil...T Boone Pickens is making a huge bet on this one..follow the money ED
Reply to
ED

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Along the Texas Gulf Coast there are still quite a number of tractors running on Butane since the farmers' houses still use Butane rather than Propane for their appliances.

While Butane appliances are hard to find, there are still quite a lot of them around.

As you can imagine, it rarely gets cold enough around here for Butane to fail to gassify although there _have_ been rare occurences.

Most of the LP-fuelled tractors around here are all the same color: Rust.

Reply to
RAM³

Was lots of CNG up here in Ontario a few years ago - including our local transit system. It is falling OUT of favour due to the complexity of refueling and the short range (due to very low energy storage density) Takes a HUGE heavy walled tank to hold sufficient CNG to operate a vehicle for a complete day, and takes quite a long time to re-fuel.

When we have no gasoline or fuel oil, CNG may become a short-term solution.

** Posted from
formatting link
**
Reply to
clare at snyder dot ontario do

And if you find a complete propane fueled popular brand tractor these days it's worth real money. Many of the popular models lost there heads to guys who are using them on "stock" pulling tractors.

Reply to
Steve W.

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.