salt load

Thanks for the link. it looks like the problem with rock salt is that its useless, not too lethal.

Karl

Tom, I think you're spot on here. One of the kids works for me. I can get the word to my neighbor without having to do the direct confrontation.

Karl

You should do some pix of kittens. I can display them on the TV and have my dog "talk" to them! She's 16, no teeth, bum leg, half blind and deaf but LOVES to talk to animals on TV. Not a threatening talk, she wants to play.

Ask a mailman what what he uses. RR

There are a lot of specialty 12-ga loads like beanbags, and some that just put out a LOT of shock and blast. One of those might be useful.

Years ago a friend of mine lived in a mostly rural development, nice homes on 2acres or more. He kept guinea foul that were like children to him. They would run to meet him when they saw his truck coming home. New neighbor (police officer at nearby Large City) moved nearby, with two very expensive purebred dogs, some large breed. He let them run free, and they developed a taste for my friend's chickens. One morning he saw both dogs in his yard, each with a dead hen in his mouth. He grabbed his 30-30 and dropped both dogs with one (lucky) shot. Loaded the dogs in his pickup, drove to owner's driveway. As owner came out, my friend dragged the dogs out onto the drive, said "Here's your F---ing dogs. you owe me $XX.XX for the poultry they killed. They neighbor said nothing, and paid up.

In Texas, dogs that destroy property become fertilizer.

This is cruelty.

Just get a super-soaker, and squirt the dog with plain water when he misbehaves. DON'T put ammonia or vinegar or any other crap in the water because it could cause more harm than you need to do; you just want to dissuade the dog, not torture or cripple it.

Good Luck! Rich

Except for the duration suggested, this is the most humane, and also the most effective method. Since OP is willing to work with the neighbor, there shouldn't be any problem in implementing it, either.

I will add that the dog likely doesn't need to be shocked for 30 seconds, as a few seconds of pain achieves the same result, especially when coupled with with a stern verbal reinforcement from the owner.

Jon

Others have valid suggestions. If it happens again, take pictures of the mauled kittens, go to the neighbor's house, and show the pictures to the kids, in front of the neighbor, and inform them if the dog comes on your property again, he will end up looking like the kittens.

Friends are friends, but pets are family members, and deserve to be protected when on their own property.

It's his responsibility, not yours. Where I live, maurauding pets that come on your property are considered pests, and can be dealt with accordingly, within the limits of firearm laws, and you must be able to prove the damage.

I've heard of squirt bottle for cats (who don't like water). I suspect the water on the dog will not do much. Except to convince the dog it's play time.

Bear spray is good, if you can get within five feet or so of the offending dog. And if the wind is blowing the proper direction.

As the dog runs from you on sight. A super soaker of plain water, do you think you can get close enough for that?

The salt load (fired from second floor window?) sounds reasonable.

Whoever that deputy grief should be dipped in bacon grease, and locked in a room with the same pit bulls for about two hours.

He said they were close friends - you don't do that with close friends. Well, I don't.

Indeed they do, but he has a number of suggestions that are worth trying before being offensive.

Bob

Good idea. It's time for them to keep their killer dog in check at their expense, not yours.

-- Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly. -- Plutarch

It is really your neighbor's problem. But...I would approach him with "what can WE do about this?" But, be prepared for a response of "while we are on the subject, what can WE do about your cats crapping in my flower bed?"

That would be your responsiblity but an easy fix. There are repellant granules.

I vote for turning up the invisible fence collar first.

The guys are trying to tell you something here, Karl.

If you get seen in public (or even on your own property?) carrying a shotgun, YOU will be the aggressor.

I'd expect to hear wailing sirens and deputies by the score.

My little girl gets excited when she sees me with the snap of her chain in my hand because it means she gets to lay with her tummy on the cool grass and watch me do yard work or some other interesting thing, or maybe even toss her Frisbee (plastic ice cream tub lid) around for her to bark at.

Gerry :-)} London, Canada

If the dog is a lab, he'd think that was almost as much fun as getting buried by the snow blower and want to play every day.

Not to me.

Risk of stray salt crystals hitting eyes would deter me from that. I wouldn't want to injure a dog. I'd want to either drop it DRT (dead right there) if it needs to be destroyed, else cause it enough discomfort to modify its behavior without injuring it.

I would never have thought that a basset hound could pass a Cessna, but when I tagged one that was spraying my shrubs with a marble he was outta there like an RPG. I was aiming for his rear haunch, hit him in the balls. ZOW!

We had a dog problem with a neighbor at the lake this summer. They'd go away somewhere (probably to work) but leave the dogs out and they'd bark incessantly all damned day. That really got to be tedious. So when I saw them out sitting on the porch on Saturday, I mosied over, said hi, then started to tell them a story:

"I had a dog once that I was very fond of who, at about age 5, suddenly developed the habit of barking all damned day. Someone called the cops rather than saying anything to me personally and the cops said I'd need to correct that problem immediately. I understood that; the dog was being a goddamned nuisance and I'd feel the same way.

Mary broke Charlie of that barking habit in about 4 hours. I'll skip the details of her very creative and effective solution.

I thought you might like to know that Harley (the dog at the lake) has been a goddamned nuisance lately when you've been gone, and we'd sure appreciate it if you'd do something about that."

That worked. They did. Problem solved. That wouldn't work with a neighbor that is a determined asshole, but these young folks aren't that way at all and I don't think Karl's neighbor is either.

Karl knows that in rural MN there are no leash or noise nuisance ordinances. The sheriff, off the record, would tell you that if a dog is a nuisance then shoot it, bury it and don't mention it. But that's not a viable course with a neighbor you get along with and would like to continue getting along with.

I'm not making up the bit about the sheriff. Our friend Becky had a bunch of kids at her lake place in Aitkin County, a neighbor's dog was loose and scaring the crap out of the children. Becky went over and asked the neighbor to restrain his dog at least for that day. He told her to go to hell. She called the sheriff. The sheriff said there's no law being broken so there's nothing he could do. Becky is not easily put off so she told the sheriff that the situation was unacceptable, what should she do? The sheriff said it wasn't his place to advise her on what she should do, but if were him he'd shoot the damned dog.

So Becky grabbed the .357 Magnum she keeps in her bedroom, went over to the neighbor's with the gun in her hand pointed at the ground, and asked him if he might reconsider restraining the dog for the afternoon.

By golly, he did!

I strongly doubt that the owner would go along with this. I sure as hell wouldn't.

Dogs respond much better to the carrot than to the stick though some stick is sometimes necessary. Some breeds are nearly oblivious to pain, labs being a notable example, but if shown stick and reward in quick succession they figure that out quickly enough.

Example: say "come" softly, pull on leash. Praise upon arrival. Repeat. After some of that, take off leash. Say "come" softly. If dog responds, praise lavishly. The first time he does not respond, replace leash, say "come" softly and damned near yank his head off -- then praise lavishly upon arrival.

Training a dog by shouting is foolish. Dogs hear just fine, and quickly learn to ignore all but shouted commands when shouting is the demonstrated form of emphasis.

Excessive use of pain as a motivator can ruin what might otherwise have been a good dog. When they get surly and sneaky, they're ruined and may as well be put down sooner than later.

Some dogs just aren't worth a s*it from the gitgo. If they're just stupid and basically untrainable but someone loves them then they get kept, but a pet that harms or kills someone else's livestock or pets is not acceptable. The options are to restrain it, retrain it, or destroy it.