Solar power

-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


    Cool.
    I'd build one, but I get so much "windshadow" from the trees, hills, (I can see the wind blowing 'uyp there' - and none of it down here) and whatnot ... maybe I'll make a steam engine.
pyotr
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pyotr filipivich
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on Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:17:58 -0700 typed

Or try a Stirling, if you just want a small project. No pressure gauges, no feed pumps, no blowups, no boiler cleaning...
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Ed Huntress



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On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:42:13 -0400, "Ed Huntress"

I saw a cool one just today on a video, used a magnet for a piston and copier toner for the sealing ring in a glass tube. Now that is thinking !
As for the wind power part. Anyone know what the pressure front is called? Like how the air is turbulent upwind of a building that snow banks are eaten away to the ground. Or maybe how the grass bends over on the side of the road before the vehicle gets there. Subsonic pressure front? I'd like to read up on it if I could cause the wind blows here quite well at times, was thinking of DC lights for the shop so the wife doesn't bitch about having lots of light.
SW
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in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    "standing wave" is what I'm thinking of - there is probably a technical term in fluid dynamics that applies.

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pyotr filipivich
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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:28:18 -0700, pyotr filipivich wrote:

"wake"?
Thanks, Rich
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-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Oh, but where's the fun in that?
    I was thinking a small one. Maybe made of wood & bamboo. I think I saw something like that on MythBusters....
pyotr
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pyotr filipivich
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on Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:42:13

Hmmm...maybe a balsa wood engine? <g>
If you like steam, do steam. Then you can be an engineer, pull the whistle and all that -- and watch it all the time it's running, to keep it going.
Stirling it delightfully drama-free. If you screw something up, it just stops. Small ones are very simple. However, making one larger than 1 hp is quite a project.
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-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    I've heard stories over the years, of using Sterlings for electricity. Dead dumb simple operation, so ..."light fire, stand back." No blinkenlichts to watch, but .. "we were happy."
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pyotr filipivich
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on Fri, 16 Jul 2010 23:14:39

They have a charm of their own. They've beome a cult machine, but, unlike another cult machine, the Tesla turbine, they actually work.
There have been a number of high-output prototypes, by Saab, the US Navy, and others, and one navy (Sweden?) powers some of its submarines with them. They're used to generate electricity in some deep-space probes, using nuclear isotopes for heat.
But if you want efficiency from them, they're expensive to build, requiring superalloy heat exchangers that are expensive to fabricate. If you don't care about efficiency, there are some teachers in Japan who have their kids make Stirlings from a coffee can, some rubber balloons, and wooden sticks. They run very well.
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Ed Huntress



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on Fri, 16 Jul 2010 23:14:39

Last I heard PG&E was bringing a couple on line out in the Mojave to generate power with. 1.2 Gw worth or someting.
JC
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on Fri, 16 Jul 2010 23:14:39

PG&E has a big solar stirling project somewhere. I've heard different stories about them, but apparently they're kinematic machines, which is a surprise because most of the large-scale solar stirling experiments and pilot projects have been done with free-piston engines.
As always, they have possibilities. Cost and lubrication have been big issues. At the high end, lubrication has been solved.
Although I'm a stirling enthusiast, I keep my enthusiasm curbed. They've been around since 1816, and except for a short period from around 1880 - 1930, they've found little commercial application. Models are fun to build and watch, however.
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There is a misunderstanding here - the wing does not have to be long and flat.
The edge and varying thickness is the trick. Many fans are curved. They get longer that way.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net "Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com /
On 7/16/2010 12:25 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

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Are you factoring in the maintenance of the panels such as cleaning, replacement as needed, etc.
How about battery (presuming you have them) replacement, etc?
If you are still ahead of the game in 10 years, then you must live somewhere very sunny and very flat...
Here in NJ, it has been proven that until the cost of the components and the maintenance come down a bit further, there is no savings to the end user and probably not to the environment either. Basically, the end user is fortifying the power company's infrastructure with their own investment of funds. ...And that's why the power companies give some $ to home owners and businesses to make such changes. They know the curve and know where the money-making is for them.
...They can't very well build more power generation plants around here so it's also their only hope to keep up as the older sites shut down, etc.
Places like AZ and NM, etc. can be worthwhile for the end user as long as they keep the panels clean, the system maintained, etc.
Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com / Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com VIDEOS:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://tinyurl.com/AutoDrill-Facebook
V8013-R
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...Adn how much did his system cost? How much is maintenance per year on average? Multiply the maintenance by two since everyone minimizes the negatives of something they like... And now ask him what his bills were before the install.
Calculate the amount of manufacturing effort that went into it all and the effect on the environment the manufacturing had as compared to the same from the power plant...
Most people find the net gain is not there unless they live in a very sunny place.
Someone actually posted a map of the USA where it was profitable and where it wasn't a few years ago. Wish I could find that now.
I hope your friend is ahead of the game, but if he is, I also bet he is in open prarie country or the south / dessert and not a metro area like I am.
Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com / Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com VIDEOS:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://tinyurl.com/AutoDrill-Facebook
V8013-R
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Joe we have heard of some efficiencies getting close to 50% in the lab. If they can get them into the field, the individuals in the metro areas may find them more usefull. It is said that the efficiency is only important if you have limited space, however, at 0600 this morning our system was showing 56w and while I could see the sun, the angle to the panels was close to zero. Our efficiency helps there and yes we live in an area that must get 370 days/yr of sun. Right now at 19:43 with complete cloud coverage we are still showing 105w. Total for the day 86kwh. about twice our previous daily average. I wonder what SCE will pay for the power we put into the grid??
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Stu Fields wrote:

There is an awful lot of commercial roof space out there, and additionally, commercial roofs tend to be flat (easier to work on and lower visibility), and have A/C units on them that could benefit from the shading an array of solar panels mounted a couple feet above them would create. Generate some electricity from the solar panels, shade the A/C units to increase their efficiency, and also shade the roof to reduce the solar heat load, you end up with a triple gain. Add in some energy efficiency tax credits and the costs are not that bad. Add in some "green" publicity for the business and you may have another benefit. Don't forget some solar thermal panels for your hot water needs.
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Can I put those panels on the roof of my house, is that usually permitted? Half of my slanted roof is facing south.
I also do not care about batteries, if I can reduce my electric bill, I will be happy.
i
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Ignoramus12838 wrote:

yes. they have to be south facing (in the northern hemisphere). i have a flat roof southwest facing, and they are tipped up about 15 degrees. optimum tilt is different depending upon your latitude. they can't be shaded by anything (parts of the roof, chimney, trees, etc).
http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss312/chaniarts/House/?action=view&current=IMG_7617.jpg
http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss312/chaniarts/House/?action=view&current=IMG_7617.jpg
most common sold now for residential is grid-tie. it uses the grid for a reference voltage (when the converter detects the grid not there, it shuts off), and backfeeds through a 50a double breaker in my main panel. my install has 2 seperate cutoffs so i can work on the panel, a large knife switch installed between the panel meter and the solar meter, and a rotary switch on the converter.
i'm on time of day metering, so sell to the power company at high day rate, and most use is at the low night rate. i should get a check at the end of the year for excess power generation unless i fire my 8kw kiln a lot more than usual.
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On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:43:16 -0500, Ignoramus12838

Make sure your roof is in good shape before you install PV panels. Most roofers will require you to have the panels removed before they will work on your roof. Removal and reinstallation can be expensive.
Thank You, Randy
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Randy wrote:

depending upon installation method, it may only be a matter of unplugging a patch cord and loosening 4 bolts for removal. the supports can be treated as simple roof penetrations.
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