Totally OT but current

Your taxes paying for the National Guard or SAR whether they are out on a mission or sitting around at the base training, so what's the difference?

If there are no emergencies do they get laid off from work?

Tony

Yes, but, it just isn't fair!

(A liberal impersonation)

Carrying a GPS would mean that we have low self esteem. Carrying a radio would mean that the people in the invisible black helicopters could monitor our every move ..................

Steve ;-)

No, and I really appreciate the footage of rescues of people who are just unlucky. I do not appreciate the rescues of people who are stupid beyond social limitations.

Steve

Yeah I always wondered about that.If these people are just sitting around playing cards or horseshoes 23 hours a day then they go work for an hour, how is that helping me? I pay 3500 bux a year in property taxes, have no kids and never will, the roads are shitty and have only once in my 50 years NEEDED a cop or firecrew. I think the whole system sucks giant elephant wang.

Don't get me started on helicopters and I know THEY are listening so I better just shut up.

I think the proper argument is not about the cost of mounting the rescue operation, because your paying for the Guard or rescue services anyway.

I think the argument is about whether it is fair for these daredevils to put the safety of the rescue crews at risk for their own foolish thrill seeking.

Tony

And your "Friend" probably didn't bother to check if the kid WHO LANDED ON HIS HEAD, has a cervical spine fracture, or internal injuries from the blunt trauma from the impact. I'm betting she also didn't bother to put him on a backboard to minimize the possibility of turning her son into a paraplegic if he had spinal damage. Or actually accessing his pulse rate or pupillary response to find out if he had intercranial bleeding. I just bet she also had a fully stocked drug kit right there to minimize the pain of transport and replace lost fluids. Probably also has a nice monitor to watch for abnormal heart rhythms resulting from shock or internal bleeding. Or the equipment to stabilize the kid, The crew on that chopper would have been able to begin care NOW. And they could have had the hospital ready for them on arrival with people standing by in the ER. REAL SMART WOMAN, she should be thankful SHE didn't kill the kid.

Maybe you should LEARN about what it takes to do the job before you start talking trash.

First of all, you didn't really read what I wrote. As far as beginning care NOW, she had him to the hospital BEFORE the helicopter arrived at the scene. And, in the interest of keeping things brief, I wrote rather less than I could have but it is my understanding that the kid was up and walking around before she arrived on the scene. Further, he didn't see any need to go in to the hospital, but she, his mother, correctly suspecting a concussion, insisted. I got the story from his step- father who is a duly trained and qualified EMT (but who was not in the area at the time). Finally, some years back, I was a qualified EMT and a member of an ambulance crew. I am tolerably familiar with what constitutes proper and improper treatment.

Jerry

Whatever happened to standing up, shaking it off and letting your eyes uncross? Seems most of us here have survived quite nicely those sorts of accidents a time or two.

Gunner, ex PRCA bronc and bull rider. Before the bikers gear. Political Correctness

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

And your idea for a working alternative is ............?

I don't think so, Jerry, or you would not have made the statements you have made. Sometimes it is advisable to wait for competent help. Sometimes all you can do is throw someone in the back of a truck and run for help.

In my meager experience, there are two things you don't do. One is to let the patient direct their treatment, and the other is to let them walk around at the scene before being assessed.

Once an old lady fell off a wall here in Las Vegas. Well wishing passersby insisted she stand up. When she did, her compound fracture of the leg poked through the skin.

Ever heard of shock? No? It's a condition that people are in following accidents that masks pain and impairs judgement. What first responders do in that situation not to immobilize the patient, summon qualified help, and give immediate and temporary treatment is called ignorance. Just because someone can get up and walk around is no measure of the extent of their injuries.

Steve

That's because you forgot to put your aluminum foil beanie on this morning.

I just increased the metal content of this thread. In actual contribution to this thread. My brother an some friends kayaked down a river in eastern Canada about 25 years ago, that had only been traversed once before. I had him take an epirb with him just in case something went wrong. You'd still need the SAR chopper but they'd have been found and out of the woods in hours instead of days if something had gone wrong. Karl

daniel peterman wrote:

Well I get out of harms way first. Then do a damage assesment before I start moving around alot. Karl

Gunner wrote:

Okay I will respond. People who do this very difficult work are worth every penny. I think they are sent into harm's way when there is no real harm inherent. Example given: The climbers knew they were facing some really bad conditions. At what cost does the rest of society have to pony up to make up for reckless abandon of these men? Is that even logical to send copters and search planes and dozens of people out there into even worse conditions? Are these people somehow more special than the rest of us? As far as the aluminum foil beanie comment goes, that is classic net slur and kinda childish. It just pisses me off that when all the really bad sh$t is going on around the world, that finding these men with such a flurry of media attention and sobbing is somehow front page news.

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:55:51 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (daniel peterman) quickly quoth:

Amen to that. The gov't shouldn't go after victimless crime or make us pay for other people's stupidity and arrogance.

Yes I did read what you wrote. If you feel that what she did was proper treatment I'm very glad you are not an EMT. The kid being "up and walking around" makes very little difference. Ever heard of a standing trauma take down? Do you know why it is used?

"Steve W." wrote

I was the victim of a TBI on the job a little over two years ago. Since that time, I have learned a lot about TBIs. (traumatic brain injuries) People who have TBIs will even fight with rescue personnel who attempt to make them sit or lay down. Sometimes to the point of having a multiple person wrestling match, then having to be mechanically restrained.

"But they were okay and walking around" wail the ignorant. Being able to walk around right after an accident is part of a normal person's survival instinct. And it happens at a time when the brain has not had sufficient time to swell, or bleed internally. When people don't know they have broken bones. When the pain hasn't hit them yet, and the swelling is not to a point of restricting motion.

Then, when it reaches a point, BLAM! The person passes out and suffers more injury.

I fully understand why EMTs tell injured people to sit or lay down. What is so hard for the rest of these folks to understand? I mean, other than the fact that they know everything, and are always right.

Steve

Gunner, you are behind the times. People are much more fragile than they used to be so the medical system needs to handle every injury as life threatening! I saw this on the news so it must be true.

Steve Who, after falling off the roof of my new shop when the roofing felt ripped loose, got up after a couple minutes, made sure everyone knew to keep working and drove myself to the clinic to get treatment for my broken fingers and bruised ribs.