Use of primitive tools

I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five armed services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss army
knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how to use the can opener attachment, in fact I am pretty sure some of them used the wrong attachment. Four of them managed eventually at a cost of some injuries and the cans were mangled. One failed to empty the can in the alloted time.
I wondered about the implications: Is this a reflection on general population's unfamiliarity with a can opener? Is this a reflection on basic training? Is it because the knife was *Swiss*? It cannot be because the knife was *Army* as I believe it was the Army guy who failed. I hesitate to cite stress affecting the performance of members of fighitng forces.
Would members of the Special Forces have done better? One of the guys made a creditable effort to rip the can open with his bare hands but with a minimum result. How would the US Armed forces stack up against, say, the Brits or the Russians?
Is this something to be concerned about? Do I have too much time on my hands?
--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC
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Michael Koblic wrote:

We all probably have too much time on our hands so I'll let that slide.
Any pre-gulf war vet would have used a P-38 to open his/her C-rations and would be able to figure out the knife. I hope.
I was shocked to learn that some of my daugher's high school friends were never allowed to use kitchen knives.
I'm guessing that the whole concept of tool-using is slowly bleeding out of a large portion of the population. Cars neither need nor are easy to repair. Most products are cheaper to throw away than to fix. How many *hundreds* of old collected sets of tools end up at the flea market, presumably because their new owner had no use for them.
For example, most people used to at least have a clue as to how a television works. I think that if you asked most young people, you'd get a one word answer, LED or LCL or plasma.
The military is having a hard time attracting enough smart and educated recruits. This is not meant to disparage our troops, but OTOH, there's not a lot of kids going into the military to learn a civilian trade any more.
Oh well, just means us old farts will have some value in the next 20 or 30 years.
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Jim Stewart wrote:

The biggest issue this points out is the lack of basic mechanical aptitude and problem solving skills. Even if all these troops have seen are tear to open MREs, they should be able to look at the can, look at the options on the knife and use basic mechanical problem solving skills to figure it out.
The sad fact is that a large portion of our volunteer troops come from backgrounds where religious indoctrination took precedence over basic education - not unlike the enemy they are currently fighting.
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wrote:

You are confusing something..most of these kids are conservative and largely from rural areas..so they are head and hands smarter and better educatied than city kids.
Are you saying that the kid that just put the carby out of a 72 Poncho into his 89 Poncho cant figure out how to open an MRE?
Gunner
"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster
Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton
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wrote:

I should mention..that I as a survivalist or miltiary man..have opened 3 cans of Stuff in my entire life with a Swiss Army Knife.
On the other hand....I have a P38/P51 on every keychain I own, and one on the dog tags chain I wear when Im out in the field
And I can and HAVE opened a shit load of stuff with a P38 or its larger brother..the P51
The .."swiss army knife" has not been GI Issue since WW2 to the best of my knowlege...the various P38s have done yoemans duty since 43 or so IRRC
http://www.georgia-outfitters.com/page52.shtml#p51
Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster
Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton
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Gunner Asch wrote:

I may have grown up on more modern can openers, but when faced with pina coladas to make and no modern can opener to use on the cans of Coco Lopez it took me mere seconds to open them with the old style opener on my multi tool.
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Why would a smart kid want to take the fuel injection off a car and put a carb on it? I think the smart ones are putting FI where a carb used to live. Steve
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wrote:

Shrug...after an EMP event..one should know how to do exactly that.
Gunner
"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster
Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton
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In that case you want a 240D with a stick. No pesky wires to make it run. Steve

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wrote:

Or a Volkswagon.
Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster
Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton
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On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:00:22 -0600, "Up North" wrote:

Because the goons at the EPA decided that the EFI Map can't flow at the rates you need when the engine is bored, stroked, hot cam, forged pistons,supercharger and running on 108 Octane racing gasoline with a shot of Laughing Gas at full throttle.
Carburetors don't ask questions, they just do it. At least till the EPA and CARB say they can't anymore.

Well, that's fine after you get it running. But you still need a working battery and starter and alternator. The battery and starter motor will probably survive an EMP, but you only get it started so many times without a working alternator or other charging method.
And parking at the top of a steep hill every time works fine for a while - till the first time you dump the clutch and stall it someplace dead flat for miles in every direction.
--<< Bruce >>--
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wrote:

http://www.eham.net/forums/EmergencyCommunications/4312
Just leave the battery disconnected.
jsw
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wrote:

Blink blink...huh???
Gunner
"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster
Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton
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The EMP creates a high voltage spike but unlike lightning it carries little energy, The heating power that fries semiconductors when the EMP has turned them all on comes from the battery. Curve tracers, hipotters etc that apply and measure similar breakdown voltages aren't destructive because their output current is limited to very low values. I built a machine once that zapped production high voltage diodes with up to 40,000V to verify their Peak Reverse Voltage, limited to a microamp by a large vacuum tube.
That's a simplified civilian explanation. If you are curious the ham radio community knows a lot more of the unclassified details.
jsw
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"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

Crank start...
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wrote:

A Diesel. Riiiiiight.... After you. Bring friends.
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Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

Not that hard, I have three crank start diesels, plus one that starts by heating a steel tube and then tossing the flywheel over and another that starts by using a blank shotgun shell!
Oh and one small generator (3500 watts)that is a pull start diesel. (actually came from a Home Depot!)
--
Steve W.

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"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

International UD9 - got one - it crank starts just fine with one person jumping on the crank.
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Pete C. wrote:

Google "Lanz Bulldog" and "Field Marshall" tractors.
The early Cat scrapers were hand cranked - the small gas pony motor that is. It was then run for awhile to heat up the diesel then clutched in to start it.
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Jim Stewart wrote:

The UD9 is more interesting. Diesel injectors, spark plugs, gas carb, switchable compression ratio.
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