what trade would you guys recommend for a teenage boy?

Harold, my kids know about Wes Montgomery, even Grant Green .. in addition to Muddy Waters, the Isley Brothers, the Rolling Stones, you name it. I don't mind the heavy metal stuff, well some of it anyway. I'm going to take him to Ozzfest this year - 12 hours of serious thrashing! The kid can play, no doubt, but you need more than talent to be successful. You need talent, discipline, and LUCK.

Grant

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

I never said I was going to try to keep him from following his dream. I said odds are he's going to need a day job. I know Zakk Wylde makes a ton of money. I also know about 30-40 pro musicians who are nearly as good who don't make beans except what they make at their day jobs ..

And I'm sure she's run into my attitude before. Ever hear a lawyer joke? Anyway, with this kid's grades, you can forget all about law school.

I appreciate your advice, Carl. - GWE

There is no such thing as luck, you create your own luck, ... or not.

Abrasha

Cool!! Hopefully Gabor Szabo, Herb Ellis and Charlie Christian as well.

I say you have to be standing in the right place at the right time. Susan's brother played keyboards and reeds for years, was successful as a musician, played with the Utah Symphony (oboe) and all, but couldn't make a living at it. No problem with talent, just never got recognized. Tough business to conquer, music, and it's often unrelated to talent. Some of the most talented people are never "discovered", sadly.

Wish the lad luck for me!

Harold

Any trade that once you know it you can work for yourself. Not dependent on having to work for someone. Plumber, or electrician, and you can go anywhere and make a living. I started out as a crane operator. I can't own my own crane, I saw after a while how I was trapped. The ability to do your trade in the setting of your choice, I think is a big factor in deciding what you want to learn. If you start out in an auto factory, you make good money but where do you go from there. A waiter or waitress, is a better profession then many jobs that seem more important. A good waitress will make a living in any city any where in the country. She will find a job in one day. It is best if you can do something you like though.

Hell of a fine idea.

Gunner

"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"

I grew up in a family where a metal-bender was the only wage-earner, so I can comment a little here. The sheet metal trade is very dependent on the ups and downs of the construction industry; furthermore, it is strongly unionized in some areas and the unions do not always allow transfer. My father would not allow any of his children to be metal-benders.

My first (and admittedly very conventional) suggestion for a highly portable trade is Computer Network Technician. We are going to be needing more and more of these types and good ones are scarce. For example; I am in charge of our phone system where I work, but our phone system is soon going to be physically a part of our computer network. My phone techs will either have to become network techs or eventually be replaced by network techs.

More importantly; besides music, what does the kid want to do?

Vaughn

I gotta tell you, this place is saturated with people who move here from all over the world to be players & engineers. The vast majority do not make it to Music Row. Most end up a) working shitty day jobs to make up for the lack of income they make at night, b) finding a girlfriend/boyfriend to support them while they try to do their thing, or c) pack it up & move back home.

Around here, any construction trade would be a sure bet. If the kid has the personality, he could start his own company by the time he was 30 and do quite well for himself.

Just my opinion

Vaughn sez:

Yeah, right! Spoken like an MIS type; one whose vision only extends to the monitor and keyboard in front of him. Computer Network Technician, my ass! Why not suggest he become a telephone lineman so he can service all the transmission facilities generated by all those Computer Network Technicians? Certified (Virtual) Clerks!

Let him "play" on the guitar. He is very young now, and probably not too inclined to be pushed one way or the other. I'll bet the basic value system you've given him will take over at some juncture and he will find his own way.

Bob Swinney

And what about Frank Zappa, Eric "Slow Hand" Clapton?

Abrasha

try

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Luck is defined as "The chance happening of fortunate or adverse events." I'm thinking that with that definition in mind, both of the above are false. Granted, good planning, and creating your own fortunate events are beneficial, they are not "luck".

Lane

Hey Grant,

Tax collector or cop. Both will be expanding occupations.

As a pure "mechanical trade", elevators are hard to beat for "interesting", especially the servicing end, but he will need a reasonable "technical" education and to be successful will need to be healthy, hard-working and VERY pragmatic or have a good stress relief outlet (heavy metal strumming??). The trade is somewhat portable, even internationally. We had guys going to China and the Middle East for contract periods of time. Here in Canada, we have at times had mechanics working in the US if there was a crying need, and sometimes (but rarely) vice-versa. The trade as a whole is moderated by sales influenced by the national economy and construction, even in the service and maintenance end of it. But given enough seniority and skill, there will always be work, which is probably true of most occupations. In 34 years, I was only laid-off when I was a helper (now called apprentice helpers), and that totaled maybe 5 months. Pay averages the top five construction trades in general. Advancement into management has been good in the past, although I'm not sure that will continue. A friend I went to high school with got me interested in the trade, and he went on to be president of the company in Canada for a few years (and then the poli-ticking BS got him). I worked through at least 7 presidents, and 6 of them came up from being helpers, but were each one exceptional in some way.

Take care.

Brian Laws>I have this teenager. He wants to be a heavy metal guitar player. In other

The best skill you can encourage imho, besides the love of lifelong learning, is the knowledge of buying low and selling high. That way whenever he sees an opportunity, he'll grab it, be it a flea market or the stock market. That said, jewelry has worked out ok for Felice and me, you can settle in any city, make a line of jewelry, shop it around either to local stores, crafts markets, or even online (much harder) and modify your line for local tastes. I would spread that advice out to making anything and selling it, which dovetails nicely with my first suggestion. We fit all our tools into two milk crates when we were travelling around in our youth. That said, Henry is only 15 months old so who knows what the hell I'll teach him....or how he'll end up....

Guitar sounds good as well - you can teach it, repair them, play them in a variety of venues in a variety of styles. Shouldn't ever starve if he's realistic.

Notice I said "starve" - there is a big difference between a trade that always allows you to survive, and one which guarantees a good constant income....

Let me relate to you a story. There was once a very popular and successful funk band from the Bay Area whom I know somewhat. Their careers were decimated by drug use and by the mid-'80s they were essentially washed up. In the late '90s one of them happened to be in a place where there was a music industry executive, and they got to chatting. One thing led to another, and eventually my friend was ushered into the presence of a VIP. They had a meeting and as my friend put it, "In 12 hours we went from being washed up to being LEGENDS!"

Now they have gigs everywhere and a CD every year and they are dearly beloved by many many fans again. While it didn't hurt that everyone in the band is now sober, and of course still very talented, still, they attribute their latter-day success to BLIND LUCK.

If old pros like that believe in luck, then so do I. Period. - GWE

I agree. There is no such thing as luck. I am confused, though, that you think you can create something that you just said does not exist.

I do, however, believe there are angels. This is why somebody runs a stop sign and runs into someone other than you. This is why a person meets EXACTLY the right contact to further their career or venture. This is why sometimes we walk through a fire or disintegrating buildings, and are untouched.

I don't need luck. I got angels.

Steve

Grant, I don't have time this AM to review all the many excellent responses to this and so don't know if my suggestion's already been covered or not. So anyhow, I'd suggest he look into AA training in laser/photonics. I'm no doubt prejudiced (been doing laser r&d for

20+ yrs) but it's a highly viable area, in my opinion. It's also got a pretty high "cool factor"; seems to me that the main barrier to kids this age taking such work seriously is that they regard it all as "magic" and beyond their abilities; but that's not at all so. There are a number of good AA schools in the US, in South Dakota of all places; Iowa; Oregon; Waco TX (one of the very best there), San Jose CA. And many little programs here and there all over the US. The good kids start at about $35-40K. There is also often what I would consider "extraordinary" potential for AA kids to ; not something you see in every "trade", I don't think. In R&D-ish settings in these sorts of companies, the bottom line is that entry level people who really soak it up and come across as really motivated to do the stuff, get pushed on quickly. Anyhow, that's my 2c on this subject. I think there are a LOT of great tech areas out there, as the numerous other posts suggest. Charley Hale Lafayette CO

-by the way, it's a common perception last couple of years, that this field is glutted and hopeless, re: the fiber telecom meltdown. I don't buy it. Laser/photonics-intensive co's with a heavy r&d and/or aerospace bent, are hopping currently, and I think will be for the foreseeable future, regardless of who's president in the next few years--

--and also by the way, I've got a 16 yr old who's planning on being the best rock and roll drummer the world's ever seen; and he is pretty good, to be sure. But we're talking about a lotta stuff like this with him right now, too. The already-mentioned recording engineering route is a heavy one, e.g. His drum teacher is a local R.E. and that's got some sway with him. I think it's good stuff, too, as long as one is ready to move to one of the centers, as already mentioned. (or, teach kids how to drum on the side in e.g. Lafayette, CO! :) I've moved around plenty (tho not for about 17 yrs now; but did plenty when my family was young) and I for one consider that aspect of things to be one of the positives with the work I've focused on. We're Americans, man, we move and groove, if you ask me! (I'm also from North Central Ark originally, too, which I love dearly, but a physics geek (or whatever) kid is NOT going to thrive there most likely...a lot of places in the US like that...) OK, I'm really done now.

My first thought was teacher. If he does that he will have the summers to pursue heavy metal full time.

He might check out the Navy recruiting office. They will give him a bunch of tests and may guarantee him a particular school after basic training. I think they will do this without a firm commitment.

If he can qualify for and be guaranteed a shot at becoming a pilot in either the Air Force or Navy.........

Dan