OT: GCSE Results

I am intrigued by the claim that the new Engineering Diploma will be equivalent to 3 1/2 "A" levels.

But, just what use to an engineering career are 3 1/2 "A" Levels, all of them in, "Media Studies" and all at bottom grade?

Fantastic result - What's he planning to do a "A" level?

Maths, Physics, Computing, French and Spanish, as well as additional studies of Creative Writing & Japanese.

He also speaks Italian fluently:)

Peter

Good results, I'm sure you and he are pleased. A "well done" is in order.

The "acid test" will be how it is rated in "UCAS points" or otherwise rated by the Universities.

I do wonder at times just how some of these "equivalences" are determined- the content of the qualification specifications rarely seem to back them up, at least in the ones I've looked at (mainly maths, as that is what I teach).

Likewise, having looked at the IGCSE vs the "normal" GCSE in maths, I don't agree the former is anymore demanding. I used some IGCSE questions as "warm-ups" for revision sessions but they weren't really stretching enough for anything else.

?? The Engineering Diploma would not, I assume, include Media studies!

As an aside, my twins got their results: One 13 A* (all A*) plus a A at AS done a year early, the other 10 A* and 4A. Follows nicely from our eldest's AAAB at A level last week. She is off to Uni next month. We are in "proud parent" mode to excess!

Brian

Good to maintain that breadth of study at "A" level, leaves career choices wide open.

Really well done! That's excellent Brian, congratulations to both of them.

Peter

Peter, your lad has done very well indeed. I am interested though in comparisons, not invidious I hope; I've been out of the UK for the past

47 years. I took 8 Ordinary Levels plus Additional Math a year later, then my A levels in Physics, Chemistry, Pure Math and Applied Math, got the first two, bummed out on the last two. Could someone who's in a position to know tell me how the GCE's from the mid-1950's compare with the GCSE's now as far as academic rigour is concerned? I don't know if it makes a difference, but we did the Oxford and Cambridge Joint GCE exams. Mike in BC

I took 'O' levels (and 'A' levels) in the 70's. Mostly everyone took 8 and one or two of the very brightest (Oxford/Cambridge hopefuls) managed 9. I think the GCSEs today are easier with their element of course work assessment, 13 'O' levels would be one hell of an undertaking probably requiring 100 hours of study/week and only Stephen Hawking need apply :-)

Interestingly on Radio 4 yesterday there was a suggestion that public schools are returning to the old GCEs, to give them the edge over state schools for university placements. This aligns them with most of Europe were exam based, rather that course work based assessments predominate.

Julian.

Typical media report- not knowing that GCEs are the predominate qualification taken in state schools by those wishing to go to university. A levels are GCEs. The reporter has confused GCSEs, the old GCE O levels, and the current GCE A levels.

Brian

Interesting. I guess the reasoning still holds good though. 'A' grades no longer guarantee uni entry due to their confetti like profusion. (this doesn't imply that clever kids are no longer clever kids in case anyone here thinks I'm having a pop at their little Johnny!) The thing that I think rather sad is that state school kids are not allowed the option of the old final examination based system at this time - that'll be our Labour gubbinsment for you....

Julian.

How?

'A' grades no

Universities just look beyond the A levels- other interests etc.

I'm no fan of Labour but I don't think you can assume the other parties will be any better. Cameron is anti-grammar schools.

Brian

Well on the R4 programme previously mentioned I'm sure they said that a string of A grades didn't automatically gaurantee placement. Perhaps you could indicate why public schools are keen to adopt this strategy, assuming that bit was accurate?

That's the PR bit, IIRC some now feel compelled to set their own entrance exams, school qualifications no longer being a reliable enough indicator of aptitude or ability.....

Maybe. But one thing seems clear, this present situation is the result of the last decade of government policy. BTW I'm not sure that this is entirely based on the grammar school argument, but rather the ''one size fits all'' approach to education and school's micromanagement by gubbinsment.

Julian.

wonder if this "course work" involves copying paragraphs..even whole chapters off the INTERNET and submitting it as your own .

would explain the gain in passes....and the differences.

you couldnt do that years ago could you ?

all the best.markj

I'm coming to a curious conclusion in the broad debate. It seems that GCSE's + GCE "A" levels demand less academic rigour, yet todays kids have a hell of alot more work to do to "make the grade". There also seems to be real grade inflation as a consequence of what appears to be less rigorous exams.

The conclusion I've drawn is the sheer breadth of the modern curriculuum means that we traded depth (hard exams) for breadth (easier exams) but the kids need to apply a lot more effort (hours of work) to cover the topics to collect the marks that I and my pals had to in the 70's.

Interested to hear other folks views

Well done. If going on to an apprenticeship, now or later, beware that if key skills are needed within the apprenticeship framework, the GCSE qualifications he has attained, will give him a proxy or relaxation, however, they expire in 5 years. I think its 5 years from the start of the apprenticeship, check it out. So well worth doing the key skills to get shot of any worries. Bob

Well, given that the state schools (and private ones for that matter) are already using GCE A levels, they can't return to them. Seriously, I suspect the R4 wires are crossed. Even if they meant returning to old style GCE O levels (which I'm not sure are still set by the boards), the value of these in terms of gaining a University place is minimal.

I'm not trying to argue with you, more show that the media don't make a lot of sense in this area.

Again, that has been the case for years. It is not something "new".

Actually, a lot of the time I think it is more about a "sifting" process to reduce the numbers.

No argument from me with that. I'm lucky, we've a selective system in this area and several very good schools (and some poor ones). My daughters should clear the school system before Cameron can totally screw it up and I'm just praying he can't do it before I retire ;-)

Brian

Change, change bloody change.

None of the qualifications I earned at school, as an apprentice or later at night school even exist any more so how do you compare ?

Add to this if I was looking for a job none of my former employers exist any more as regards references although I could write glowing ones on four of their behalf as I snaffled loads of headed note paper before leaving / getting thrown out / sacked. [delete as necessary ]

Mind you I have been self employed for so long now I'm sure I'm unemployable.

True story. Last place I worked at we needed a new engineer for the boring shop so Personnel, [ we were that poor we couldn't afford Human Resources ] advertised in the local rag for the position, we had 63 applications. Said limp wrist from personnel asked me to help sort out the applications so we split the pile into 2 and started. He read each one, marked then all out of 10 depending on key points and made two roughly equal stacks. Me, I read the last page and either made a small stack or threw the rest on the floor and had finished by the time he's done 8

I was then told I hadn't assessed them correctly to have done them all in the time taken but I said i had. He then wanted to know what I based by two piles on.

The pile on the floor consisted of people who had worked at Rolls Royce or British Rail all their lives, the small stack on the table represented people who had been employed at different companies for reasonable periods of time. Asked to explain this I told him the RR and BR people would have been trained to the n'th degree to work to the RR or BR way, we wanted people who were flexible enough to work to our way and not someone who wanted the whole works to work to his way.

It then took 10 minutes to get a short list of 6, the engineer we finished up with was brilliant.

John S.

"Below" degree level, that is true after a few years for most people/jobs.

Even with a degree, after a few years you may find yourself "trumped" by someone with experience but no degree- unless you are in a profession requiring particular qualifications.

Sometimes they are just a "checklist" item. When I trained to teach I had to produce my O level maths certificate, despite having degrees in maths and engineering. Why? Just because there was a box to tick.

Often, paper qualifications are just the ticket to get you on a shortlist- especially if the role requires experience. As jobs have got harder to find, qualifications have become an easy (but not always effective) way to "filter" applicants.

One of the things I tell my pupils is that, whenever they go for an interview they should assume everyone in the waiting room has (at least) the same paper qualifications as they do and they need to offer something different to stand out. Being teenagers they probably take no notice but that is another matter ;-)

Not a good advert ;-)

Seriously, I agree with much of what you say.

Brian