OT: GCSE Results

Perhaps you compare the things that you could do standing on your head and knowing that you knew what you were talking about, with the things that the modern generation cannot do without recourse to a calculator, a google-equipped computer, and someone standing over them to tell them how fantastic they are and to lead them by the hand?

In the past few months, there was an article in the Telegraph describing how today's recipients of an A* grade in mathematics were sat down to a mathematics apaer of 30 years ago and all of them failed.

Probably still got into Essex Uni though ;-)

That's unusual. I got my O levels more than 40 years ago, but in all the years of employment since I was never once asked to actually produce them when applying for a job. In fact I can't remember the last time I even saw the things.

Cliff Coggin.

Trainee teachers, even those with degrees in Maths or an IT related engineering and (I assume) English, have to do a computer based "skills test" in Maths, IT, and English. No exemptions. The IT one was quite "interesting" when I did mine (2003 or so). It was vaguely Windows like but only enough that knowing Windows was actually a handicap. A sort of "GEM" on depressants, if you ever met GEM. Next time I get a trainee in my classroom, I'll ask if they've updated it ;-)

I don't recall ever having to produce certificates in my pre-teaching days, other than my first job out of Uni., when there was a special bonus for a good degree.

Brian

Going back a few years when I was made redundant, the public sector jobs wanted every detail down to GCE "O" grades and "A" grades (1973/75), all schools, colleges and universities attended, all work experience employer by employer, followed by a competence based interview to determine what they thought you were actually capable of. At my age you can die of boredom filling out such a form, in fact I think it's a sort of natural selection, lots of people probably do die before they get to the last page.

Private sector jobs were filtered on relevant CV and a competence based interview. I work in the private sector.

One of the differences is that up to ~1970s, the exam was printed on a question paper and answers writ on sheets of foolscap: since then mostly a combined question and answer book has been used. So whilst I still have all my old papers it's difficult to compare with more recent stuff. At the time, dad took great delight in comparing my papers with his matric. stuff, and moaning about the fall in standards, just as today's old farts do. Anyway, first question on the first paper I pulled out of the envelope:-

O+C Joint, 1961, O level Geography II.

a) On the outline map provided: i) Shade and name North Downs, South Downs and the Weald. ii)Insert and name the river Medway and one other river. iii)Name Beachy Head, Dungeness, North Foreland, Romney Marsh. iv) Mark by dots and name one inland town and one coastal town. v) Mark by a cross the position of London Bridge. vi) Indicate by shading the position of the East Kent coalfield. b) On the lines provided beneath the map name and account for one important activity carried on in each of the towns marked on your map.

Today's kids - not a chance - they need sat nav to find a pub in the next town for an away pool match, and I don't think their teachers would do much better. Consider how difficult it must have been for

Here's another, more suited to this ng. Dads with 16yo kidz are invited to report back the kid's reaction.

A locomotive of mass 80 tons draws a train consisting of forty 10-ton trucks on a level track. The resistance to motion is 10 lb-wt per ton. If the locomotive is working at 400 HP, find, at the moment when the speed is 20 mph, the acceleration of the train.

Regards,

David P.

Insufficient information.

Need to know the wind strength and direction together with the relevant the drag coefficient and the area on which it is based ;-))

Henry Old fart from the 50's GCE - the one that followed the matric Even Stephen Hawking wouldn't have managed 17 of the which is what I hear some of today's youngsters manage. As others have said - not knocking just realising that things are different.

For those of you with a little nostalgia for the old GCEs I've put what A- levels I can find and my Teacher Training College Physics exams up @:

Can't find my O-level Geography, Math or Religious Knowledge, but I'll put up the rest as soon as I've sorted, scanned, and cleaned them up. Have fun!!

It could actually be me with the crossed wires, I was half asleep at the time driving home after a longish day that started at 04:30. So, assuming that some public schools are returning to old style GCE O levels then I have to conclude that government policy is not maximising the brighter kids' potential at state schools.

Didn't the entrance exam tend to be the prerogative of the red brick universities? From what a read in the papers (not the Daily Mail!) it's becoming more commonplace....

I think the main problem today is with every kid wanting to go, or being ''forced'' to go to uni. Many are not suited and would be better off finding a job or getting an apprenticeship IMHO. As an example, I can think of 3 airline cabin crew that I regularly work with who have degrees. (in soft subjects like media studies and tourism) To my mind it's absolutely barmy to go getting a degree to serve tea and coffee at 37,000' and earn about £12K. What an absolute waste of time and effort and taxpayers' money. I asked one the other day (as nicely as I could) why he's not put his qualifications to proper use and why he went to uni ''dunno really, my parents kind of expected it of me'' was his honest reply.

Julian.

That is a fundamental problem. In the days of the 11 plus, it was accepted that some people were destined for Uni (and associated careers) and others for careers not requiring a degree, including the "semi-skilled" (but no less important) jobs, etc.

However, is some misguided bit of "social levelling", our leaders decided we shouldn't "condemn" youngsters to being plumbers, electricians, etc. Instead we would send them to University, get them degrees of doubtful value, and have them work in MacDonalds. Meanwhile, we would import plumbers etc from Poland. Things like apprenticeships became history.

Parents do have a role in this, it is natural that parents want the best for their children but some have become conditioned to think that a semi-skilled job, or even a skilled one, which doesn't require a degree, is somehow "lower class".

You will have guessed (I hope) I'm no degree snob- some careers need a degree, some don't. Some people either don't like academic things or can't hack them. There are roles in society for each end of the spectrum and there is no disgrace in being a plumber.

We need to recognise that the "class" that matters is what type of person you are, not whether you fix brains or drains- society requires both skills.

Brian (climbing off his soap box).

I have a PhD in Electronic Engineering and I've worked as an electronic engineer for about 20 years at the top of the industry now but I'm semi-seriously thinking about qualifying as an electrcian (albeit in another country, ie not the UK) because I'm starting to get fed up with it all! Only semi-seriously, and probably nothing will ever come of it, but I have given it some thought. There's a lot of money to be made by a good self-employed electrician, and it'd get me out of the office more! Same for plumbers, particularly in the antipodes, which is where I'm thinking or returning to from the UK.

Nobby

and now O-levels too. Mike