wildfire to 2001 convert

Is it possible to convert the wildfire drawing to open with ProE 2001?
Regards Ziomall

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: Is it possible to convert the wildfire drawing to open with ProE 2001? : Pro/e has never provided backward compatibility on models, assemblies or drawings. So, you can't save in, export or convert to an older format so that your newer version files will be useful in an older one.
Wildfire can export to a neutral file format like IGES or STEP. This turns your drawing into a collection of draft entities so that 2001 can import them. But you lose associativity with the models and parametric information contained in dimensions is also lost. In other words, you can't actually work on or modify these drawings in 2001 in anyway that would be useful for the Wildfire version. And the usefulness on the 2001 system would extend to only archiving or printing documents.
David Janes
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drawings.
newer
your
But you

modify
version.
printing
Thanks. But we still makes in 2001. OK I have to create the new file in 2001.
Regards Ziomall
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David Janes wrote:

Yeah, but there is a way to do it. It involves messing with the file headers and there's a page on a free but must-register website somewhere about how to do it. As long as your Wildfire files don't involve any capabilities that aren't present in the 2001 files, you (supposedly) can go backwards with them.
This is sort of hearsay cuz I haven't done it yet, but have the instructions right here so it should be possible.
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isn't this the purpose of a "neutral" file? I've never used it, and am a relative newbie to ProE.
wrote

drawings.
newer
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wrote : > > : Is it possible to convert the wildfire drawing to open with ProE 2001? : > > : : > > Pro/e has never provided backward compatibility on models, assemblies or : drawings. : > > So, you can't save in, export or convert to an older format so that your : newer : > > version files will be useful in an older one. : > > : > : > : > Yeah, but there is a way to do it. It involves messing : > with the file headers and there's a page on a free but : > must-register website somewhere about how to do it. As : > long as your Wildfire files don't involve any capabilities : > that aren't present in the 2001 files, you (supposedly) : > can go backwards with them. : > : > This is sort of hearsay cuz I haven't done it yet, but : > have the instructions right here so it should be possible. : :
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i wasn't thinking of STEP or IGES. Isnt there a file with the extension *.neu ? What is it used for?
wrote

2001?
assemblies or

your
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I think it's a Granite neutral, have wondered if there is any benefit to using it. There is some info in help or on PTC's site regarding it.....
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Just got a link in the inbox to TPI 126567. Basically, I think it's saying that ellipses exported (via *.neu? They just say "neutral"; not iges, step) from Wildfire are misinterpreted when imported into 2001. So, you might want to stay away from it....
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My experience is that .neu files are almost always imported as solid geometry. If you use IGES or STEP I think there will sometimes be need for repairing the solid. I naturally depends on the part. If it's a box it doesn't matter, but if it's a complicated designed plastic part ...
/Bjorn
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I think this might be misunderstood / misinterpreted.
Geometry definitions are not changed. The functions that create the geometry definitions are lost. (Which I believe is what you are saying.)
Both IGES and STEP, with very few possible exceptions, faithfully preserve geometry (point, curve, surface) definitions; e.g. degree / order and control vertices. I'm not really sure that the exceptions I've seen aren't also attributable to the CAD system read / write, pre / post processing routines.
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wrote : > : Is it possible to convert the wildfire drawing to open with ProE 2001? : > : : > Pro/e has never provided backward compatibility on models, assemblies or drawings. : > So, you can't save in, export or convert to an older format so that your newer : > version files will be useful in an older one. : > : : : Yeah, but there is a way to do it. It involves messing : with the file headers and there's a page on a free but : must-register website somewhere about how to do it. As : long as your Wildfire files don't involve any capabilities : that aren't present in the 2001 files, you (supposedly) : can go backwards with them. : : This is sort of hearsay cuz I haven't done it yet, but : have the instructions right here so it should be possible.
Sounds like an urban (computer) myth. But really, if it's that easy, there should be a BUNCH of people selling the service. True, there are some model translation services ~ some claim to have software, some claim to take drawings and recreate as models. None sound like they just mess with the header which would be pretty obvious as soon as you did 'Info>Audit Trail' on them. So, call me skeptical, but I doubt it. I'm betting there's something like a ckecksum in it to prevent something that obvious. In any case, the one time I tried it, it didn't work. [Maybe I just needed the secret instructions from the mysterious website ;-]
David Janes
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David Janes wrote:

Sorry for the delay (took a while to find where I saved the instructions. Magoo *knew* they were around here somewhere .... And sorry for making it sound THAT simple, but you actually can convert, at least usually. I've done it once or twice but you're right; no, it isn't JUST a simple header change.

Ahh, so under that skeptical exterior you *tried* it already ! heh heh :-)
Okay, here we go :
Open your model in 2001
< Feature -> UDF Library -> Create > (give 'er a name)
choose < Standalone >
should include a reference part ? < no >
select everything from the tree except for the three datum planes
enter relevant names for the references when prompted, then select < single > then name according to your preferences
( hmm, that looks pretty sloppy. Bad notes. You'll have to figure that part out on your own.)
review, then < done >
now, open 2000i(2), create a dummy file and give it a name.
Open your 2001 file in an editor that doesn't mess with line feeds and swap the 2000i(2) header from your dummy into the 2001 model file. Had a few problems here but I was also going from Wincrap to a Real operating system, Unix. CR/LF, etc.
Now open 2000i(2), create a new part with only the three default datum planes.
< Feature -> Group > and choose your modified 2001 file.
< Independent -> Same Dimensions -> Normal >
choose relevant datums to match the orientation you want, then
< Done > done done done done done ... oops, got carried away. It's such an easy habit to get into ... :-)
Okay, these are old sloppy notes and I'm sure there are discrepancies, but it does work. At least it has for me. It's kind of a pita, but if you haven't used any 2001- only methods then 2000i(2) should work. And it _is_ less trouble than making the entire thing from scratch :-)
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: David Janes wrote: : : > Sounds like an urban (computer) myth. But really, if it's that easy, there should : > be a BUNCH of people selling the service. True, there are some model translation : > services ~ some claim to have software, some claim to take drawings and recreate : > as models. None sound like they just mess with the header which would be pretty : > obvious as soon as you did 'Info>Audit Trail' on them. So, call me skeptical, but : > I doubt it. I'm betting there's something like a ckecksum in it to prevent : > something that obvious. : : Sorry for the delay (took a while to find where I saved the : instructions. Magoo *knew* they were around here somewhere .... : And sorry for making it sound THAT simple, but you actually can : convert, at least usually. I've done it once or twice but : you're right; no, it isn't JUST a simple header change. : : > In any case, the one time I tried it, it didn't work. : > [Maybe I just needed the secret instructions from the mysterious website ;-] : > : : : Ahh, so under that skeptical exterior you *tried* it already ! : heh heh :-) : : Okay, here we go : : : Open your model in 2001 : : < Feature -> UDF Library -> Create > (give 'er a name) : : choose < Standalone > : : should include a reference part ? < no > : : select everything from the tree except for the three datum planes : : enter relevant names for the references when prompted, then : select < single > then name according to your preferences : : ( hmm, that looks pretty sloppy. Bad notes. You'll have to : figure that part out on your own.) : : review, then < done > : : now, open 2000i(2), create a dummy file and give it a name. : : Open your 2001 file in an editor that doesn't mess with line : feeds and swap the 2000i(2) header from your dummy into the : 2001 model file. Had a few problems here but I was also going : from Wincrap to a Real operating system, Unix. CR/LF, etc. : : Now open 2000i(2), create a new part with only the three : default datum planes. : : < Feature -> Group > and choose your modified 2001 file. : : < Independent -> Same Dimensions -> Normal > : : choose relevant datums to match the orientation you want, then : : < Done > done done done done done ... oops, got carried away. : It's such an easy habit to get into ... :-) : : Okay, these are old sloppy notes and I'm sure there are : discrepancies, but it does work. At least it has for me. : It's kind of a pita, but if you haven't used any 2001- : only methods then 2000i(2) should work. And it _is_ less : trouble than making the entire thing from scratch :-) : You're right ~ a UDF of all features has been around for a while. The last time I saw it here was when Chris Fawcett presented it more than a year ago. His way might have been somewhat simpler, which he presented here: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=chris+fawcett+group:comp.cad.pro-engineer&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.cad.pro-engineer&scoring=d&selm=lHc2b.38187%240u4.5608%40news1.central.cox.net&rnum=1
I put this on a par, in terms of workability, with running a trail file in a previous rev to recreate a Wildfire part. Sometimes it will work and many times it won't. Almost sort of a translation tool or the typical unix workaround.
David Janes
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David Janes wrote:

I didn't say it was GOOD ! But a typical Unix workaround can be better than *no* workaround sometimes, yes ?
I haven't managed to get the go-back trail file thingy working yet tho (another obvious approach)... got any tips on that method ?
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: David Janes wrote: : : > Almost sort of a translation tool or the typical unix workaround. : : <snip> better than *no* workaround sometimes, yes ? : I think the point is that while it might suffice in an extreme emergency, techniques like this have been around for years. They have not grown in popularity because, for day to day use, they are just too cumbersome, time consuming and unreliable (which accounts for some of the time consumption).
What we need is not some junky translators that say they save in another software's native format ~ SW saying it saves to a Pro/e part file comes to mind because it comes across as another single feature import like IGES ~ but a feature based, parametric neutral file format. STEP has been saying for years that they are working on such a thing. Anyone heard anything, know how far they've gotten?
: I haven't managed to get the go-back trail file thingy : working yet tho (another obvious approach)... got any : tips on that method ?
There may be CAD data translation services that have figured this out. Couldn't say for certain that it's impossible. But, just to begin with, PTC isn't making it easy. Just to begin with, you have the header problem where a trail file is identified by the rev that created it. IIRC, this is used to prevent the go-back use on other, earlier revs. But, let's say this can be _easily_ defeated; no spending half a day just tweaking the header or this method's viability just dropped to null. Then there are the other charming features of the trail file to contend with: a) It is the literal record of everything that was done in a whole session of Pro/e on a particular workstation. So if you worked on half a dozen models, assemblies and drawings, you are again editing to find and isolate the file you need to reconstruct. Hopefully, you didn't interrupt your work on a model to work on something else because, now, you are piecing together sections of the trail file to make a start to finish coherent modelling session. AAACK! b) The difficulties with literal operation of the trail file carry over into such things parameters, directory structure, menu structure. You could possibly get around difficulties with parameters and directory stucture by doing it yourself. So if you want to send a 2001 file to a vendor that has only that rev., you have both Wildfire and 2001 installed and run your WF trail file on 2001; identical start parts in a parallel directory structure; identical configuration files, just to be on the safe side. It just might work! But wait, what does the literal trail file do when your modelling session went to Tools>Parameters to set a parameter or Tools>Relations to create a relation but, in the earlier rev, it was Utilities>Parameters or when any other part of the menu structure or interface changed: how will this effect trail file execution? You know, of course, that its simple error handling is a typical Pro/e exit, session cancelled, reconstucted file lost. Does this seem like something you'd like to try under time pressure, in a real emergency!?! Could you just send a trail file to your model making vendor and say, with some assurance of easy success, "just run the trail file, that'll give you the part in your version of Pro/e" or do you think you might have to give them a 12 page booklet on how to edit, run and debug a trail file for them to have even a glimmer of a hint of a chance of succeeding. If so, sounds like a great formula for losing vendors. I guess I'm just lazy because I'm sure I'd be sending files to CAD data translation specialists before I ever seriously thought of doing this trail file thing.
David Janes
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David Janes wrote:

snip
Umm, I wasn't thinking of using it as an enterprise-level best practice, ya know ? Just the occasional simple model that you might want to run backwards rather than recreate ... but you're probably right. Most often one would be ahead by doing things the right way rather than 'saving time' with a hack.
btw, I could *swear* I saw something in the press foofaraw about wildfire being able to save files in previous formats this time around. Or at least 2001 format. Yet I couldn't see *anything* like that anywhere in W-F. I don't think it was my imagination ... anyone else remember reading that ?
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