Mars Exploration Rovers Update - May 6, 2004

Apparently you were asleep when they posted this:

There is no reason not to assume that the entire rock is uniform. Having said that, there is no reason to believe that any other part of the rock isn't igneous. Pyroxene and plagioclase form under much higher temperatures than anyone can possibly expect a trilobite to survive long enough to die and become a fossil. Since you are not a scientist, nor specialize in geology, nineralogy, nor paleontology, it comes as no surprise to anyone that you suspect anything you don't understand.

I haven't published anything on trilobites. I do, however, have a modest trilobite collection. But it doesn't take a trilobite expert to prove you wrong.

Then what is the point in having this conversation, dork? If you want to prove to me that you are an idiot, you afre doing a fine job of it.

I already have. Several times.

and insults are not

Do you always try to prove someone else is untechnical by spewing insults?

And here is a link to the explanation that proves that page totally incorrect:

On a sunny day (Sun, 16 May 2004 06:19:26 -0400) it happened "George" wrote in :

>>

Possible, those run in parallel in that site. The ones I refer to go in the gound and twist. But it maybe. That still leaves a lot of other things to be explained. For example it could also be hairs of the Mars Bunny, and the blueberries that what you always see where rabbits have been... And there is strong evidence that bunny exists, as in this photograph:

Anyways, thank you for the pointer to the fibers ... It does not 'disprove' life on mars though.

JP

While I admire your persistence, George, you're not going to get anywhere with this guy. He'll respond to the igneous rock objection with one of the following:

a) The rock isn't really igneous -- this is just another NASA lie/conspiracy/whitewash/cover up.

b) I'm not the one who's igneous! You're the igneous one!

c) The trilobites are magical, flameproof trilobites.

Lets face it -- you might as well be arguing biblical inerrancy with a fundamentalist christian.

For the record, I've done my share of invertebrate fossil hunting (with a special emphasis on trilobites and graptolites) and Chip's "evidence" leaves me totally unimpressed.

Also, for the record, I've always found Chip's other robotics-related postings to CRM to be generally insightful and useful -- it would be nice to see him put his robotics pages back up, and lose the silly xenotech coprolite.

: :

to fit heat shields......man their must over 100 of them up there and they seem to be everywhere....how many rovers did we send? .....hmm doesnt warrent all those heat shiled peices....does it ?

the fibers that Sir Charels found look more like roots because they are IN THE GROUND.......and the soil is around them...and covering them......

you can find the link to NASA image on the page......

>

For the record, I've done my share of invertebrate fossil hunting (with a special emphasis on trilobites and graptolites) and Chip's "evidence" leaves me totally unimpressed.

well i know it wasnt the RAT that made that ......never touched it.......look on his site.......see what this arguement is about. seems to me that he didn't want to impress you at all or me for that matter the guy is just doing research...and he seems to know what he is talking about too like you he knows his trilobites :) ...and sharing what he has found. and I agree with it . That people agree with him seems to have started a hell of alot of noise but then child hood pissin contest never impressed me much,seems you attack people starting with Terry-Lynn and then myself. which of course I will respond with the same kind. if you want respect you need to earn it not bully people. What is it with you guys? your word isn't god. And mine isnt either thank god.

as for that rock formation how do you know what it is because NASA said so...hell if they said jump off a cliff I know you would....we havent seen any of the information regarding that rock ......I want to see it..... I know what I see and I see a trilobite :)

to see something that will blow your minds.....take a look at this makes you think you know there isn't life on mars would that mean you would have to change your beliefs? yes maybe you would have too at that. most people would.. and PRIDE is a hard thing to overcome and yes Georgy insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again expecting different results good to know you know that .another is let it go......cant we have just a good debate does it have to come to flaming people? why is that ? no WONDER their is WAR .....people get their dick stepped on and all heck breaks loose.that is called insanity ........ Have a good one !!

>>>

I'm not trying to disprove life on Mars. I'm demonstrating that what you think is life isn't.

I believe I have found the problem. You are insane. Well, I can't argue with the insane, so I am not going to try.

>

I can't say that I disagree with you.

Research? This is not research. It is a kook web site, the rantings of a loser who sees exactly what he wants to see, just like in an ink blot test.

That page is still wrong, and insulting to scientists who actually know what we are talking about. It will be wrong no matter how many times you post it.

well it doesnt matter who is right or wrong the truth will come out......it always does.....and to those that are blind will not even know it ....and that is sad.....well i took a looked at the page today again and saw this

very cool indeed now i know that george will have something to say about it as he cant keep still about anything ......but on this other page is the smalles one i have seen yet of a trilobite its a direct link to it also here is of something of note the tiny Urchin never seen one so small so i guess MARS might have them that small.......as well as the trilobites well that makes since... since alot of what we see from the rovers or did till they wnet hush hush......was microscopic on these little guys...

enjoy .....

Gee, what do you want, a medal? Are you going to tell me that you found that one on Mars as well? I only have one more question for you? Did the Martians loan you that pen, or did you take it with you on your trip?

Yes, I enjoy your rants. It helps rejuvinate my faith in my own education. It is a shame you never received one. You should sue your teachers for dereliction of duty, and ask for your money back.

well no , and yes , of course not you dolt.........sheeeeeeeeeeesh you are crazy....to think that .

I think i answered your questions a s good as i can.

ok here it is again for you Georgy

............thanks for holding up the model i have in my head of you.............so far you have done everything i thought you would.........i was right a sad pitiful man behind the keyboard.

some think its not.......but explain how it is eroding and falling apart georgy?

And this picture has what, exactly to do with the discussion at hand?

And this has what, exactly to do with the discussion at hand? Do you want me to post pictures of my trilobites, or what? Are we going to have a trilobite spew?

why are you being so dam stubborn ? also too you know that the Rock is sedimentary........I would like your input on that rock you being a geologist and all........... thought you would know......I haven't come across any ingenious rocks that pieces fall off or crumble apart to dam easily......of course living out I the desert you tend to know ........this. was wondering what your thoughts were...........( cant wait to hear this one. not holding breath) see the picture at

No, I don't know that at all. To suggest that Mars has the not only similar animals, but specific classes of animals in common with the earth is so far-fetched that no geologist in his/her right mind would even suggest it.

Read above - and below.

Way wrong answer. If I was teaching you mineralogy, you would have just flunked, big time. The rock has the exact same spectrographic signature as a shergotty meteorite. If you were to sit them side by side, and examine the mineralogy in detail, I'd wager that you'd have a very hard time telling them apart.

Many igneous rocks fall apart quite easily after they weather for a time, in fact, as do many meteorites. You have to remember that this rock is likely very old, and has been weathering on the Martian surface for eons. It didn't form yesterday. The fact is that many plagioclase-bearing rocks do disintegrate rather easily. If water was present at some time, the pyroxene would also weather readily. In fact, in the presence of water, some pyroxenes are altered chemically to form hornblende (which wasn't seen in the spectrograph - it's presence would have been a strong indicator for the presence of water at the time, or some time after the rock was formed). The fact that the pyroxene is present in the rock , and not hornblende indicates that it likely hasn't been chemically altered by the presence of water. Other pyroxenes weather to form smectite clay. Smectite wasn't seen either. Given that spalling and fraturing is evident on the rock surface, I'd wager that frost-wedging is evident as a modifier of the rock surface, as well as abrasion from the Martian wind. If you'll note in the photograph, there is at least one chunk of the rock just below your"trilobite". Smaller particles likely were sandblasted away in the Martian wind, or otherwise turned to dust.

What makes you think I live in a desert? I look out my window and see a forest of pin oaks and maples.

You see what you want to see. Take a rorschach test sometime. You see a trilobite. I see spalling, fractures, fracture fluting, pits, and grooves in the rock. I have chipped and split tons of rock in my 20 years as a geologist, and as a result produced fluting exactly like what you are seeing on that rock, and done it with many types of rock (from mafic rock to granite to metamorphic rock to limestone to chert, and even some thick, hard shales). I have also seen fluting of this nature on rock that has been frost-wedged. To suggest, based on an out of focus, poorly lit photograph, that this weathered surface (and it is a weathered surface) represents a specific class of aquatic earth animal is to stretch credibility beyond all reason. Occam's razor says "ll things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one". What is the easier explanation?

A) That a trilobite somehow was transported to a very arid planet from the earth, or let's say, from trilobite heaven, and miraculously survived the trip, and even more miraculously survived a fiery baptism in a lava flow, later died, was somehow not consumed by the fiery lava flow, and was preserved within it, to be discovered at a later time by MER-B.

B) That microscopic life erupted on Mars when it was wetter, and just by happenstance evolved into the exact same class of animal that is found as a fossil right here on earth (when there is no evidence of the other life that would be associated with it - it has to gather sustenence somehow, since trilonites are believed to have been scavangers), and somehow managed to preserve itself inside a meteorite that was likely formed oriiginally in a fiery igneous eruption or intrusion and later blasted nearly into orbit by an asteroid or meteor impact, where it came down in the location where it sits today. Even if you consider that the rock might be sedimentary, which is certainly out of the question, and even if you consider that it could have been formed in a shallow sea (which would be necessary in order for this rock to be sedimentary and contain any fossils at all except microscopic bacteria-like life forms, which could exist in igneous rock) you still have to be able to explain the rest of the scenario.

C) That the markings are an artifact of the weathering process on Mars acting on a pyroxene and plagioclase-rich rock that is susceptible to fracturing, spalling, pitting, fluting, and frost-wedging in a bitterly cold Mars environment.

Now, I've done your homework. Be sure to give me the credit for it.

not.......but

disintegrate

Erm georgy i said i lived out in the desert....sheeesh ya need glasses